Map Maker?

[Hiro_Antagonist]

We do recognize that a map-maker is something that some players want, and we know you're not alone. And while we want to give players everything they could possibly want, we just haven't had the budget or time to implement everything, and we have to take into account how many players will *really* use the feature compared to how much it will cost us to implement.

We *are* still looking at the idea of letting people make their own maps, but if we implement that feature, players would most likely have to make their maps the same way we did -- by editing XML files by hand. This isn't as bad as it would seem. My own process for making maps was to draw them on graph paper or in Paint Shop Pro, and then copy/edit the template map file to fill in the new terrain. That process typically took about 10-15 minutes for each map once the map was designed. If we did implement this feature, it wouldn't surprise me at all if someone made a tool to help with this process, but anyone can roll up their sleeves and edit XML with little hassle.

Anyway, there are all sorts of other complications that come from allowing user-made maps that wouldn't be obvious to players. So we're looking at the problem closely to see if there's any cost-efficient way we can develop it.

-Hiro_Antagonist

[Combat Wombat]

Hiro_Antagonist said:
We do recognize that a map-maker is something that some players want, and we know you're not alone. And while we want to give players everything they could possibly want, we just haven't had the budget or time to implement everything, and we have to take into account how many players will *really* use the feature compared to how much it will cost us to implement.

We *are* still looking at the idea of letting people make their own maps, but if we implement that feature, players would most likely have to make their maps the same way we did -- by editing XML files by hand. This isn't as bad as it would seem. My own process for making maps was to draw them on graph paper or in Paint Shop Pro, and then copy/edit the template map file to fill in the new terrain. That process typically took about 10-15 minutes for each map once the map was designed. If we did implement this feature, it wouldn't surprise me at all if someone made a tool to help with this process, but anyone can roll up their sleeves and edit XML with little hassle.

Anyway, there are all sorts of other complications that come from allowing user-made maps that wouldn't be obvious to players. So we're looking at the problem closely to see if there's any cost-efficient way we can develop it.

-Hiro_Antagonist

I can finally play the map I made Please find a way.

[nullpixels]

Hiro_Antagonist said:
We *are* still looking at the idea of letting people make their own maps, but if we implement that feature, players would most likely have to make their maps the same way we did -- by editing XML files by hand. This isn't as bad as it would seem. My own process for making maps was to draw them on graph paper or in Paint Shop Pro, and then copy/edit the template map file to fill in the new terrain. That process typically took about 10-15 minutes for each map once the map was designed. If we did implement this feature, it wouldn't surprise me at all if someone made a tool to help with this process, but anyone can roll up their sleeves and edit XML with little hassle.

Anyway, there are all sorts of other complications that come from allowing user-made maps that wouldn't be obvious to players.

-Hiro_Antagonist

A map maker for this game is a topic I've been thinking about quite a bit lately. I looked, and it seems everything is rolled up into a WAD file. I'm guessing that is where the complications lie. If I could just see how the XML files were structured I would love to take a shot at creating a browser-based utility that outputs an XML file.

If Hiro or anybody wants to contact me about this, please don't hesitate to shoot an e-mail to ben@nullpixels.com.

[Hiro_Antagonist]

well, the data files are basically XML. The problem has basically nothing to do w/ the wad files.

The problems stem from things like UI, data integrity, etc. There are many, many subtle issues that make it a lot more difficult than it may seem from the outside. This is why we had to cut this feature from the original release, despite how much we wanted to offer it.

Yes, these issues are surmountable, but they will take a large amount of development effort that we just can't afford. We're hoping that LOL 2 (quite a ways off) will allow for modability, but we'll have to see. And we're hoping that we can find an affordable way to patch a custom map feature into LOL 1. But when I'm forced to decide between catering to the vast majority of users by having a better core game or building in modability for the minority of users that will take advantage of that at the expense of having a better core game, I'm always going to opt for having a better core game... =)

-Hiro_Antagonist

[Combat Wombat]

The problem is not a map maker as Hiro said it's getting the game to accept the custom maps. As it stands if one user had a custom map somehow and that person started an online game with someone that didn't have the map it crashes the game because it doesn't understand what to do. Coding the brains into the game so it gets what is going on is a huge time consuming effort. Instead of spending time working on that feature(which would be nice btw) he feels that the main game needs the attention.

Now in the future I bet this will change once the majority of the problems in the main game are smoothed out. He wants people to get a quality gaming experience with the features that were shown when they purchased the game. So everyone needs to settle down a bit.

Sargus I like you idea of players submitting a design to Hiro for possible use in the next patch. I know I would love to get the map I made in there Maybe I could help out here. If its ok with Hiro I could get the designs from you guys and make the maps and then give them to Hiro since I already understand how the maps are made from my beta testing. Though I can think of a few good reasons why this wouldn't be a good idea, so no one get your hopes up. What do ya think Hiro?

Edit: Gah someone went and deleted posts from the thread some of the stuff I said might not make sense now, who knows.

[Hiro_Antagonist]

Yeah, sorry about deleting SargusBane's post, but it was very out of line.

He's a real-life friend of Andre's. He was involved a bit in pre-shrapnel beta testing, and is quite good at the game. He discovered an early exploit (the unbeatable 'Runner Horde' strategy), that has since been fixed. My understanding is that he's quite passionate about the game.

I'm not sure why he saw fit to attack me publicly like that when he could have just sent me an email. I saw no new information in that post other than attacks calling me stupid and other things. When it comes down to it, his post was unacceptable for *anyone* to have posted, especially a 'friend'.

SargusBane: Let it lie. If you have something to say, please email me directly. I am receptive to all feedback, but I'm not Superman, nor do I have an endless amount of time to implement every feature. I have to pick and choose very carefully, based on both business and technology factors. I want map editing in the game as much as everyone, trust me on that. I was sad when I had to cut it before LOL shipped, and things are no different now. It was cut for a complicated set of reasons, which I've been very open and honest about here.

CombatWombat: Sure, I'd love to take a look at any map ideas/designs you or anyone else may have. I'm going to try to add in a couple of new maps for each patch we release, and it would be great if some of those came from the community.

Fair warning though: Those maps may not make it into the game, or may be altered when added. I had to nix most of my own map designs, because during playtesting I would learn that they just don't work for a variety of reasons. But I promise I'll look over every single submission, even if I don't have time to reply to them all.

FWIW, I recommend taking a screenshot of the game, and then copy/pasting the terrain squares around to make the map look like how you want. That's probably the easiest way for you guys to do it and see what it would look like. If it seems promising, I'll convert it to XML and playtest it, and maybe include it in a patch!

You guys can send maps to me directly at scott-at-tinyhero-dot-com.

-Hiro_Antagonist

[Combat Wombat]

Hiro, Sent you the 1 1/2 maps I managed to complete