OT: Enterprise...What did you think?

[Suicide Junkie]

Baron & Baal: Please take a second look through this thread, find where it went wrong and then read your post before that one.
I think that you, Baron were taking the situation too lightly, and you, Baal took it much too seriously, and exploded.

You've got to give people the chance to apologise for something that offends you, and not post while you're still furious.
For what its worth, I have been in that situation myself, and it was only a network error stopped me from flaming. Typing a message over again can give you time to think about what you're doing.

You two should seroiusly consider editing down your Posts, and translating them into civil english.

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Geoschmo: You've got the first post, and have the power to remove this thread if/when you feel it is appropriate. Choose wisely.

[raynor]

quote:

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... warp 5 is 214 times the speed of light.

How about warp 9.9999 equals 199,516 times the speed of light.

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If I remember correctly, you cube the Warp Factor to arrive at the speed. So, warp 5 is 5 * 5 * 5 = 125 times the speed of light. If you recall from the Voyager episodes, they were 70,000 light years from home or at least 70 years from home if they were able to achieve warp 10 which would be 10 * 10 * 10 = 1000 times the speed of light.

[geoschmo]

quote:

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Originally posted by raynor:
If I remember correctly, you cube the Warp Factor to arrive at the speed. So, warp 5 is 5 * 5 * 5 = 125 times the speed of light. If you recall from the Voyager episodes, they were 70,000 light years from home or at least 70 years from home if they were able to achieve warp 10 which would be 10 * 10 * 10 = 1000 times the speed of light.

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You are correct, and incorrect.

As stated before there is no single warp scale. Your cubing formula acheives a correct distance for Voyager, but if applied to "Enterprise" it would mean the Klingon home world was a little over 1 light year from earth. The closest star system to Sol is Alpha Centauri and it's over 4 light years away.

You pretty much just have to accept that the warp scale varies from series to series, and sometimes between episodes in the same series.

You could try to calculate some non-linear, non-logarithmic scale, for warp. It would require a table instead of a formula. But even then I am sure a thourough survey would find examples where the same warp number translated into different speeds.

Geoschmo

[Mephisto]

Ok guys, right out of the tech manual for the Enterprise-D:
Warp 1: Lightspeed *1
Warp 2: Lightspeed *10
Warp 3: Lightspeed *50
Warp 4: Lightspeed *100
(Scale is hard to read from here on)
Warp 5: Lightspeed *200
Warp 6: Lightspeed *500
Warp 7: Lightspeed *800
Warp 8: Lightspeed *1000
Warp 9: Lightspeed *2000/*3000
Warp 9.5: Lightspeed *10,000
Warp 10: You cannot reach Warp 10.

[Kadste]

While doing some research on the Warp scales, I noticed that there were differences in the scales over time. I have not not been able to find any documentation on why theses changes were made. Maybe we are supposed to believe as time goes on the definition and formula just gets refined. This has happened many times in our past. Our temperature scales have been changed and updated with better research and better formuals to explain them. Not much available documentation on this topic as well. You have to dig really deep to find exact explanations on the why and how. Maybe Warp Scales are like this to.

I do remember, though, that where was always an exponential increase (warp 5 is 25 times the speed of light) plus some other factor used in calculating the warp factor. It seems to be ths other factor that changes.

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In difficult ground, press-on;
In encircled ground, devise stratagems;
In death ground, fight.
Sun Tzu (circa 400 B.C.)

[dogscoff]

OK...

Many inconsistencies / illogicalities were introduced in The Original Series, back in the days when they couldn't give a long garlic fart for things like continuity or scientific plausibility. By the time The Next Generation came around, they realised what a bunch of pedantic freaks us sciffies are, and tried their best to straighten out as many inconsistencies and scientific nonsenses as possible without trashing the existing continuity.

For example, interstellar distances, speeds and such were often way off in TOS, and words like "sector" & "quadrant" were bandied about pretty much at random. In TNG, they fixed the definitions (ie quadrant= 1/4 of the galaxy, sector = smaller area of space which may hold many star systems.)

For data storage they made up the term "kiloquad", because they knew that if they used real terminology (ie Gigabytes) then by 1996 the Enterprise-D's computer would look as advanced as a Commodore 64.

As for warp speeds, in TOS warp speeds were pretty much made up as they went along. The maximum for the TOS enterprise was about 8 or 9 I think, but in some episodes it acheived more, sometimes upwards of warp 14, by means of unexpected alien intervention and so on. Some hardy fans made up various non-linear scales to fit around the shows, but they were convoluted and not particularly robust.

Then TNG came in, and they abandoned the old "system" and introduced the scale detailed below by Mephisto, where warp 10 would involve occupying every point in the universe simultaneously. This has been faithfully adhered to ever since. (TNG, DS9, VOY, although I can't comment on the new series)
It's also worth remembering that there are other, quicker ways to get about in Trek (Trans-warp conduits, wormholes, Q's finger)

*dogscoff steps back into his Trek closet and closes the door.

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[This message has been edited by dogscoff (edited 01 October 2001).]

[geoschmo]

quote:

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Then TNG came in, and they abandoned the old "system" and introduced the scale detailed below by Mephisto, where warp 10 would involve occupying every point in the universe simultaneously. This has been faithfully adhered to ever since. (TNG, DS9, VOY, although I can't comment on the new series)
It's also worth remembering that there are other, quicker ways to get about in Trek (Trans-warp conduits, wormholes, Q's finger)

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All very resonable. I can say that the new series defineltey doesn't follw the TNG scale, for the reason I posted below. But that would make sense I guess since "Enterprise" is pre-TOS, it should not use the same scale as TNG for sure. So we can asume that there was a scientific consensus of some type between the years of the TOS and TNG that revised the warp scale. Logical.

However, I seem to recall some discrepancies even within the TNG and post TNG series. Can't remember specifically where, but I will try to find them. Not that it is particually important, other than to demonstrate the point that scales are mutable. But I think we are all in agreement on that.

Geo

Edit: In just a few minutes of looking I found one example from a TNG episode where the travled 4.5 light years at warp 2. They covered the distance in a few minutes. According to the TNG warp scale that distance and speed the trip would have taken months. I am sure there are more examples, that just the first one I found.

All this is not a complaint. Star Trek is one of my favorite shows. I think the inconsistancies just give the show character. They don't bother me at all. But that doesn't mean I ignore them. They are like little inside jokes that only us "pedantic scifie freaks" will get, which makes them that much funnier.

Geoschmo
Pedantic Scifie Freak Second Class


[This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 01 October 2001).]