Conceptual Balance Mod 5.4

[Cainehill]

As I have said in the past, water and air would really make thematic sense for a pretender like the Son of the Sea. Waves, winds, storms : the oceans may take many lives, but that's merely incidental, collateral damage if you will.

[PDF]

Cainehill said:

As I have said in the past, water and air would really make thematic sense for a pretender like the Son of the Sea. Waves, winds, storms : the oceans may take many lives, but that's merely incidental, collateral damage if you will.

Agreed. I admit Poseidon was not overly a nice dude [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Envy.gif[/img], but he has no tie to necromancy either - and THAT'S Death magic. Water+Air is the way to go to have an Ocean/Storm/Wind pretender God.

[quantum_mechani]

PDF said:

Agreed. I admit Poseidon was not overly a nice dude [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Envy.gif[/img], but he has no tie to necromancy either - and THAT'S Death magic. Water+Air is the way to go to have an Ocean/Storm/Wind pretender God.

Air could be argued to fit better... but there are very few air spells that can be cast underwater, while death has many.

[Endoperez]

Unfortunately, Water has even less spells castable underwater than Air:

Water-based Evocations:
Cold Bolt/Blast -no
Slime -no
Rain -no
Water Strike -yes
Falling Frost -no
Ice Strike -no
Niefel Flames -no
Murdering Winter -yes (castable, but not targettable)

Total: 1 castable combat spell. Of the Water/Fire combination, only Geyser works underwater.

Air-based Evocations:
Lightning bolt -yes
Shock Wave -yes
Mist -no
Thunder Strike -yes
Orb Lightning -yes
Storm -no
Wrathful Skies -no
Shimmering Field -yes

total: Mist is negated, but archers can't be used underwater. Besides that, Air only loses Storm and Wrathful Skies; all 5 other Air evocations can be cast underwater.

Water/Air Freezing Mist can't be cast underwater. And I forgot Globals, it seems. On combat boosts, Water gets Water Shield (+5? def), but neither loses anything. Even Mistform works underwater.

Googling defineoseidon yielded an interesting idea:
"God of the sea and earthquakes. Horses and bulls are sacred to him. Originally the god of earth tremors, of vegetation and fecundity, Poseidon fought for the Olympians against the Titans, and his reward after the victory was dominion over the seas, lakes and rivers. Poseidon's fits of rage manifest as storms"

Water-Earth, anyone? Besides Water, only earth, mud and rocks are easily found under water. And Death, for some. Mechanical Men, Iron Dragons and Enlivened Statues can go underwater, even though MMs have to be constructed on land. Earth and Water/Earth Evocations don't work underwater, but all the boosts do.

It would also make Shrouds of the Saint an interesting option for both Atlantis and R'lyeh. 50% Quickness, reinvigoration 5 and natural prot +5 (maybe +9 with +5 armour of Shroud?) for no extra encumberance seems like a good deal for mages. And the fun I would have with Enchantment-driven Claymen - Enlivened Statues fest with W9E9... I considered modding a Head of Clay pretender god just to try out crazy Pythium blessing goodness.

[Oversway]

Isn't frozen heart castable underwater? I think you overlooked that one. Numbness, and sailors death, too. I'm not sure why you restricted it to evocation only...

He already was water-earth. I'm not really sure why people wanted to change it, I guess to be more interesting.

I'd say that earth or air make for a better SC than death or nature, although nature wouldn't be that awful.

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I see drakes used more as well. I think the buffs are great for them. Not sure about the gem cost. Since they are such a low level summon, usually people get better options and so don't summon many of them.

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Anyways I'll be happy with whatever is done. I think this mod is a great improvement over the base game.

[Endoperez]

Oversway said:
Isn't frozen heart castable underwater? I think you overlooked that one. Numbness, and sailors death, too. I'm not sure why you restricted it to evocation only...

To tell the truth, I was being lazy.

He already was water-earth. I'm not really sure why people wanted to change it, I guess to be more interesting.

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I see drakes used more as well. I think the buffs are great for them. Not sure about the gem cost. Since they are such a low level summon, usually people get better options and so don't summon many of them.

--

Anyways I'll be happy with whatever is done. I think this mod is a great improvement over the base game.

I haven't yet used this mod much, but it does add a new level of experimentation to the whole game. That alone is worth it, and with the addition of more gold/gem-efficient choices... Great fun!

[PDF]

About Vine Ogres : I don't find them ultra-powerful, but
1/ They are an incredible bargain at 1 to 4 Ogres PER GEM ! Cite me anything even marginally useful costing that little... For example you can get 32 of them for the cost of those famous Drakes

2/ The whole Ogre Factory stuff is totally gamey. With say 10 natures/turn, every 2 turns you get an Ivy King (summoned by a previous IK with a Mace), all kings set to Ogre summoning, you get ridiculous masses of Ogres. Kind of same than clam-hoarding, gamey ... So it has to be addressed, the most obvious way being to prevent auto-summoning of IK so at least you've to devote some mage(s) to do the work !!

[Arralen]

Clams and Fetishes do not burn that well, though ...

[Alneyan]

Spirit Mastery comes to mind in the "cheap bunch of troops" department. Spirits are about as expensive as Ogres, are a lot easier to summon, and can still be useful (Stealthy+Ethereal+sheer numbers for annoyance).