Swarm over Loemendor (Started)

[Boron]

You forgot that there is always the option to peacefully coexist. I asked you for a Nap but you declined and attacked me.

In the other Invisible Swarm, the one hosted by Chris, Invisible Swarm 4, i tried Ermor SG for comparation purposes. Though my S.O.L. Ermor is more inflexible i like it more than the IS 4 Ermor. In IS 4 i am neighboring Turin (Tien Chi) and we peacefully coexisted until Turn 57. Now Turin got too mighty though and for the game's sake i have now canceled our Nap.
I like the undead themes not because they are powerful but because they are fun to play .

Ermor is a really good partner nation normally. They will happily give you their other gems for deathgems and sometimes even for gold. Also their god is normally flexible so they can probably forge you special stuff like uniques.

Ermors Dominion normally can be kept out too, so there is really no need to attack them.

[The Panther]

True, you did offer a NaP. Of course, you would have cancelled it and attacked me after you eliminated Ulm, for I was the next logical nation for you to attack. Though you might have killed Machaka first before attacking me.

Perhaps I could have built up a bit more and attacked you later. But I thought my single best chance was to hit you while you were weak from attacking Pasha. Plus, Pasha and I already had a previous treaty when you attacked him.

I also made a peace treaty with both TC and Arco for the sole purpose of eliminating the nasty AE Ermor before you destroyed too many provinces. Pretty much everybody has a basic goal of undead containment in any game where AE Ermor exists.

Little did I know that you lost very little taking out Pasha...

Still, I will never again play a game with an Ermor death theme, for it simply takes all the fun out of the game to start next to it. In 4 of my last 5 games, I started adjacent to AE or SG Ermor. In one of those, the Ermor nation quit and went AI so I am doing very well. In the other 3, I am nearly dead due to the starting proximity to Ermor.

And for the fifth of those last 5 game? I was Ermor (default) and took a joint victory in that one. It was surprising just how much fun the Broken Empire theme was while playing in that game!

Finally, I am still a bit mad at myself for allying with an AE Ermor adjacent nation and allowing him to win in a game (I was Mictlan) about a year ago. I spent basically the whole of that game sacrificing endless slaves to try to keep a bit of my own dominion alive in the face of 20+ Ermor level 10 temples. My pop was dying far too fast from the Ermor dominion spread and all the blood hunting I was doing. I even had all 6 IDs and 2 of the ADs in that game (that was before the life drain nerf), but they were useless against a swarming, lifeless Ermor which is why I never did cancel my peace treaty with him. After that game, I vowed never to make that mistake again.

Like I said - BAH HUMBUG!

[PashaDawg]

Turn 33 is out.

Deadline is Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2005 at 9:00 pm.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Boooooo! Ermor sucks the big one! Booooooo!

Even more so because it's Boron... Boooooo!

How many times will you squish me, Boron, before I finally lose patience und schmack die Deutsche Schmerke off your face?

(Actually, Panther is right about how Ermor can cause balance problems, but what really burns my twinkie is that Boron attacked innocent me before I could carry out my grand plan of doom for y'all.)

Pasha

[Cainehill]

Heh. Yeah - IMO, starting right next to Boron is what ought to be outlawed. Sure, most of the time I manage to whack him severely (or at least to hang on for 30 or 40 turns while he sits on my capitol ) when he rushes at me, but in the meantime the casualties I take remove me from possibility of being a contender. Not to mention that nowadays, whenever I start next to him I have to prepare myself for his onslaught, slowing down my general expansion.

[Cainehill]

And more seriously, I think that the way Dominions2 "randomly" places nations is actually one of the big problems with MP games : when you have a map with 200 or so provinces, and someone still starts with another capitol just one province away ( ie, only 1 independent separating them ), essentially one of those players, or both, are going to be screwed.

Sure - some of the time the two can work something out diplomatically. But only some of the time, and if one of the nations is isolated on a peninsula and the other at the entrance to the peninsula, there's really very little chance of coexistence : the one needs to get off the peninsula in order to expand, the other is not going to give up a province next to their capitol. Heads roll.

In general, if one player starts with a greater distance between him and other nations than the others, that player has a pretty big edge - more room for expanding only against independents, more time to build up.

And yes - I've had games where someone else's capitol was just one away from mine, on a medium-large map. Others where I had half the map to expand in all by myself while 5 other players all started in the other half of the world, very close together.

Scenarios, fixed starting positions, are imo opinion the key to balanced MP games.

[The Panther]

Not to mention that you had the absolute WORST possible starting spot on this map, Cainehill. You were screwed before the first turn was even done.

I recall in my tests on this map that starting in the frozen tundra was something to be totally avoided at all costs. Only Ermor could have prospered there!