Tips on Trading

Genotype · #1 January 20th, 2006, 09:42 AM

Hi All,

I have been a fan of SE since SEIII. That game was so addictive. I purchased SEIV standard edition a few years back and have now installed the deluxe patch.

I have some questions though. I have done some searches and read the FAQ but couldn't find any info.

1. Is there any mod or any way of finding out what the AI would give for a trade? For the life of me I have no idea what they want. I tried to give them a planet once in exchange for some resources and they refused!

2. Does repeated unsuccessful trading make them angry?

Thanks in advance!

Renegade 13 · #2 January 20th, 2006, 11:31 AM

1: I'm not at all sure. I'm not sure if it is even possible to know!

2: As far as I know, unsuccessful trading does not anger the AI or make it more happy. It is neutral about it.

Welcome to the forums!

Slick · #3 January 20th, 2006, 12:19 PM

Speaking from observation, they will trade if they are getting a good deal as determined by the relative costs of the proposed trade package. There are numerous ways to trick and abuse the AI and after a few times it isn't fun. Some of the modded AI's (See TDM-Modpack) are more challenging overall although I don't think you can affect AI trade decision making. If you read through the history.txt file, you will find a few entries about improving the AI's trade decision making. Here are some tips about guessing what to give and what to ask for:

- Check out the AI ship designs (if you have any) to see what techs they have.
- Giving them a really good deal is more likely to be successful so add up the costs of the trade. Include research, resource, ship kt.
- Colony tech is almost unfair to try to trade for, but you can tell what kind of colony techs the AI has by looking at his colonies (rare exception: he could have captured the planets but unlikely in early game and by late game most empires have all colony techs anyway)
- The more recent your newly researched technology, the more unlikely the AI already has it. You must weigh the benefits of the trade vs. his using it against you later and sooner.
- Even if you don't have any ship designs you can get a feel for some techs by looking at hull sizes and if he has carriers, then he has researched fighters, etc.
- Arguably one of the most valuable things you can get from another race is some of their population if they breathe a different atmosphere than yours. You can then move them to those colonies in your empire and undome them and increase planet population space, cargo space and most importantly facility space. Population can be obtained via trade (and other means) by obtaining a planet or ship likely to have population (pop transport or colony ship). Don't forget about other-breathing population and their natural tendency to get unhappy; use of Urban Pacification Centers or troops is the most common way to address this although there are other ways to increase happiness. See the FAQ.

And welcome to the forums.

Genotype · #4 January 20th, 2006, 10:00 PM

Thanks guys. Really appreciate the tips. GOt some more questions:

1. I made this one trade and then got a counter-offer. The offer was for my applied research but in return I was offered something called "unavailable technology". When I accepted, it did not appear that I got that offer in the next turn?

2. This is off-topic. Before the deluxe patch, I could use an individual minister to automatically launch satellites and mines every turn. However, I can't seem to do that now. I check the "mines/satellite/drones" in the minister option window and then toggle the minister on in the planet. But no sats are actually launched...I have to do it manually. Am I missing something.

Thanks

Renegade 13 · #5 January 20th, 2006, 10:29 PM

I can answer one of those.

The "Unavailable technology" was probably the result of having the AI attempt to trade you a racial tech that you did not have. For example, if it had Crystalline Technology knowledge, and you didn't choose it in the beginning of the game, it would probably show up as Unavailable since there is no way for an empire to aquire technology from a race with a racial tech unless they already have that tech.

I apologize for my confusing and somewhat awkward reply, I'm quite tired right now

Slick · #6 January 20th, 2006, 10:46 PM

Re: launching sats... you were probably playing simulatneous movement before and using the "repeat orders" not a minister. With turn based games, manual launching of sats is the only way with planets. There is a very inefficient way to do it if you are willing to sacrifice a sat launching ship and take extra turns to launch them. Move the ship away from the planet farther than it can return in one turn, give the ship orders to pick up sats from the planet, move away far enough so that it can't return in one turn, move back to the planet, launch sats, repeat. This method keeps the orders unfinished in the order queue so that they can be repeated. I wouldn't bother. Sadly, even with this, occasionally ships doing such gathering will just get stuck and/or forget their orders.

Genotype · #7 January 21st, 2006, 04:48 AM

Renegade 13, no need to apologise I completely understand. The race that I was trading with was the crystal one.

Slick, I am sure that in the old game I was using a minister and it was turn based...so I'm not too sure what is going on. Thanks anyway!

Parasite · #8 January 21st, 2006, 02:24 PM

Trading is a black art which you can only learn by experience.

and by reading this forum :-D

It changes with different revisions of SEIV. I have found it hard to trade for Ship Construction Tech until later in the game. The AIs seem to value it more. Trading for Colony Tech was hard, then easy, now harder to get the AIs to bite. But it remains one of the best trades to make with them. I always try to trade with the AI fairly, but there are exploits that can be used. An example is trading three levels of Research and three levels of Cargo when you only have one of each. If you are playing solo and cheat, you only cheat yourself.

I think planets may be valued at the stuff they contain. I once traded a single planet for three newly colonised ones of his. They took it for some reason. Soon after, two of those planets were destroyed, so maybe the AI got the last laugh after all.

Many (all?) of the TDM races have trading turned off. They will not do a trade even if the best terms are given.

bearclaw · #9 January 22nd, 2006, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Parasite said:
Many (all?) of the TDM races have trading turned off. They will not do a trade even if the best terms are given.

If this is the case, then it's not off for all TDM AI's. While it is not easy to get them to accept a trade, I have done it in the past. But only rarely.

Kamog · #10 January 22nd, 2006, 04:00 AM

I like to trade with the A.I. to get rid of junky ships that I don't want to pay maintenance on. Like outdated, worthless and damaged ships that are out of supply and stranded somewhere.

One time I deliberately built worthless, high-maintenance bases in one of my systems and traded them to the A.I. with the intention of wasting their resources by forcing them to pay a lot of maintenance. A.I. kept accepting the deals because I asked for very little in return. Even if the A.I. is too angry to accept gifts, they often accept trades if they think they're getting a good deal. This trick quickly stopped being fun because it felt like taking unfair advantage of them.