Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion

parabolize · #1 February 22nd, 2006, 02:39 AM

I was thinking about making some AI improvements but if you are back I will just dump them on you.

Basically I wanted the AIs putting better components on their ships and better facilities on their planets. Like armor, no good reason a large ship shouldn't have 1 Scattering/Stealth/Emissive armor. But its kinda hard to make the AI put on 3 types of armor. So you add them as different abilities; Emissive as armor, Stealth as cloak, Scattering as scanner jammer. You may need to reorder a few components abilities to do it though.

As it is right now I think AIs never build Mineral Scanners, Hybrid Eco - Farms or Radioactives Colliders.

I think the AIs should build cargo facilities with some weapons platforms. If the AI is crapy at attacking why not make it good at defending?

I was also thinking about giving the AI a different ECM/Combat Sensors tech tree that added 40% to each level because the AIs are not training ships no matter how hard I try.

Anyway, its nice to have you back.

Captain Kwok · #2 February 22nd, 2006, 02:51 AM

You can also use the AI Tags (there's 20 of them) to help the AI choose components as well.

Captain Kwok · #3 February 22nd, 2006, 03:03 AM

Also, you may consider giving the AI System - Training facilities instead so they can at least inadvertently train.

Atrocities · #4 February 22nd, 2006, 03:56 AM

AI improvements would be a welcome addition.

Fyron · #5 February 22nd, 2006, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Captain Kwok said:
Also, you may consider giving the AI System - Training facilities instead so they can at least inadvertently train.

Devnull was perhaps the first mod to do this.

Atrocities · #6 February 22nd, 2006, 08:33 AM

I still remember when I first played the mod so many years ago. I was like "oh my god you can do this?"

frightlever · #7 February 22nd, 2006, 10:59 AM

Good news to see there's going to be a new version of Dev Null. I had a hankering to play so more SE4 last weekend after a break of about a year but it didn't feel right until I remembered about DevNull.

Rollo · #8 February 22nd, 2006, 01:24 PM

Thanks for feedback, all.

@parabolize: the AI is actually doing a good job using all kinds of different components and facilities (well, the updated ones anyway). Using different kinds of armor isn't very hard to do, like you said, you just have use the correct abilities. Most races use 3 or 4 (sometimes up to 5) kinds of armor. The Xiati, for example, use steath, scatter, emissive, normal and ablative armor, and later also the hardenered shield generators (which replace the normal armor and/or ablative armor).

Mineral Scanners etc are also built, but I agree it is a rare thing and doesn't happen until the late game. I usually have high levels of resource extraction very far down the research list. And then the AI has to find a suitable planet, too. But it's a good idea, I will add that to my notes to make an AI that focusses more on resources and less on military and see how that turns out.

Cargo facilities are kind of wasted slots IMO. There is very little a modder can do to actually build units where the actual cargo space is available. Overall the locations for AI contruction is pretty erratic. Besides, domed worlds have had their cargo space doubled (in version 1.60 or 1.70) to mitigate some of the AI (and perhaps player) cargo woes.

Giving the AI tech that humans cannot have (AI only tech) is a big no-no for me. Besides from cluttering up the racial traits, I just don't like the AI to cheat (well, besides the AI bonus to make up for general AI inefficiency). But I agree that Sensors and ECM can be a problem, if you look at the stuff that is being done right now, you will see that I am tweaking a lot with to-hit chances.

@CaptainKwok: All training facilities (for humans and AI) are system wide in DevnullMod Gold. Again, I am not going to give the AI any tech that humans cannot get.

oh, and to prove that I am indeed making progress. Here is some more news:
* Battle Cruisers get a +10% to hit
* removed level 4 for Base Construction and lowered the requirements to get the Barge hull
* made large fighters a bit harder to hit
* added +1 innate combat movement to interceptor (medium fighter)
* added Afterburners IV component
* added Broadsides Mount for ships 600+
* raised damage for Depleted Uranium Cannon, but gave it 1/2 damage to shields
* added maintenance reduction to Barge
* reduced the minus to-hit for DN mount from -20 to -10 (for now)

and finally... duh!!! This is so obvious and mitigates such a great AI woe.. I cannot believe I didn't think of this years ago:
* added +15% Defense Bonus to Cloaking Device and gave it the same family number as Steath Armor to prevent stacking

Rollo · #9 February 23rd, 2006, 12:56 AM

well, well... making good progress. Not so much work done on the the data files, but giving the Xiati AI some last tweaks before release. Also here is a little thing:
* added two little batch files to install FQM-Quadrants and Classic_Quadrants back and forth

Think of this as a quick and dirty version of the mod picker, which lets you choose which types of quadrants you prefer. Now both the FQM and the Classic crowd can be happy =).

Also speaking of release earlier... I think I am pretty close to be able to relase this version, but before I do here is some questions. I do this because there are a lot of ideas floating around right now, that will most likely make games from this version 1.80 imcompatibel (again). But I am willing to relase this soon-ish, even if not totally balanced in some cases and still in work, if there is interest and people want to playtest.

Question 1: Which AI would you like to see next?
a) Fighter and Missile heavy AI (Terrans, Jraenar, etc)
b) Crystalline AI (Phong et al.)

Question 2: I have read some reports about weak AI in some cases. Well, actually the AI is pretty good (by my standards). It's just that not all of the races have had updates, yet (list of up-to-date and good AI are at the bottom of this post). And if people start games with random races, they are likely to get some of them (all the updated races have .emp files, btw).

How would you prefer to handle these not-up-to-par races?
a) Temporarily delete them from the mod until they get updated.
b) Replace the AI files with copies from the updated races for now, even if that means the races lose some of their characteristic traits and weapon choices.
c) Leave them as they are. I don't mind a few punching bags.

Question 3: How soon would you like to see this new version released?
a) Give us the new stuff NOW! Even if it means I have to start a new game with the next version.
b) Nonono, stop breaking our old savegames now, if you are going to do it again with the next update. I'd rather wait longer to get a more polished version later.

Alrighty that's about it. Feel free to comment outside the provided choices. Oh, and question4: do you actually play Devnullmod Gold or are planning to do so? =)

PS: list of races which have been created or updated
by Rollo: Cue Cappa, Abbidon, Norak, Toltayan, Eee, Drushocka, Praetorian, UkraTal, XiChung, Space Vikings, United Flora, Sonne, Monsters.
by Geoschmo: Amonkrie and Fazrah