Caelum questions

[NTJedi]

That's not always true Daynarr...
With faster casting means also faster killing of opponents. It all depends what happens on the battlefield whether or not anyone survives. Since you never know when or if an army will retreat to say quickness is bad has no standing.

[Daynarr]

Well, its true its not always true, but thats what I was trying to tell you.
Quckness may as well be the reason why your mage didn't survive just as much as it can be help to get away.
Generally I have yet to see some non-pretender like mage to get away and say: "It's only because of quickness". Of course, powerful mages and pretenders can benefit from it greatly for both combat, casting and 'tactical retreats' (running away ).

[NTJedi]

Daynarr said:
Well, its true its not always true, but thats what I was trying to tell you.
Quckness may as well be the reason why your mage didn't survive just as much as it can be help to get away.
Generally I have yet to see some non-pretender like mage to get away and say: "It's only because of quickness". Of course, powerful mages and pretenders can benefit from it greatly for both combat, casting and 'tactical retreats' (running away ).

Usually that's the first spell my mage will cast if even one path of water magic. There's no certain way to ever be sure if a mage survived just because of quickness... but it does make them cast faster(better for offense), run faster(escape_bonus) and provides +3 DEF(avoid_melee). Thus there is definitely more good casting 6 spells in three rounds compared to 6 spells in 6 rounds.

[OG_Gleep]

But in Caelums case, having your troops positioned forward is a liablity isn't it? I normally position a screen of single archers normally 2 deep so arrows and melee troops have to go through 2 lines of single units. Then archer blocks behind them, and mages to the very rear.

This gives maximum time for arrows and spells to rout the melee troops.

Even when in optimal range, with Aim and windguide cast, low prec spells still miss.

NTJedi, that wasn't the case in this battle. Caelums mages fly, and I position them at the very edge of the battlefield. The only possible way they could die by melee is:

1) They are passed out due to fatigue
2) Atleast one unit has its morale intact.

And the way I position them, #2 almost is impossible. Every single mage killed was over 100 fatigue. The second the army routes the mages are off the field. Quickness wouldn't help at all.

[Boron]

NTJedi said:
That's not always true Daynarr...
With faster casting means also faster killing of opponents. It all depends what happens on the battlefield whether or not anyone survives. Since you never know when or if an army will retreat to say quickness is bad has no standing.

I find quickness only useful with relief.
Thunderstrike e.g. has 50- Fatigue. So if you have no relief your high seraph casts either quickness and 2x thunderstrike in 2 rounds or 2x thunderstrike.
If you script him with quickness he is then fatigued 2-3 more turns than otherwise. So without relief quickness is contraproductive for caelum at least.
And caelums mages fly away anyways normally so they rout as fast with and without quickness.

[NTJedi]

yes I meant mages in general not Caelum mages.

[Vicious Love]

Casting spells, in general, is a good way to get your mages killed. Why keep them on the field for turn after turn when you can just retreat, and guarantee their survival?

As for myself, I prefer to base my tactics on making the other player retreat, and being able to get off twice as many spells in the first few rounds of combat ties nicely into this sort of approach.
On the one hand, you eliminate enemy troops and mages before they've a proper chance to retaliate. As any MoM player knows, first strikes are nothing to scoff at*.
On that same hand, your mages do pretty much all the damage they can within those selfsame rounds, so the enemy can't eliminate them before they do their damage. Which can be an edge when your foe's stocked up on archers, flankers, Magic Duelists, artillery spells and other mage-killers.
Still on that first hand, the first few rounds of a mostly-melee battle are the only chances you'll get to use low-precision, large-AoE spells like Sulfur Haze without risking your own troops.

But, on the other hand, this works best with precision-100 spells, or at least ones with a huge AoE in a target-rich environment. Your garden-variety quickened low-level fire mage will probably just end up exhausting himself before the enemy get within optimal range.


* Except in Civ IV, I suppose.

[Chazar]

Vicious Love said:
Casting spells, in general, is a good way to get your mages killed. Why keep them on the field for turn after turn when you can just retreat, and guarantee their survival?

I would like to do that, but gathering everyone back together after a retreat is cumbersome, even with flying caelum (coordinated placing on the battlefield, assigning bodyguards and 'bodyuguarding' archers, etc)
I really hope that there will be a difference between an orderly retreat and routing in Dom!!!

Furthermore, why is retreat limited to 5 rounds? The same is true for hold & attack, fire & flee, etc. It would be already enough to have a single global slider for each command for the whole nation, setting a value between 1 and 12 for each of those commands. Or maybe just allow this specific battlefield personalisation during pretender creation would be nice...

Am I off-topic yet? Sorry!

[Endoperez]

Well, that's a first time! Dom!!! is quite descriptive, though. I think I'll start using that, if you don't mind...

[OG_Gleep]

I personally hate it when I have to regroup my troops. It irks me to all hell when my main block of infantry goes bye bye and I have to spend a couple turns getting everyone back into place. I seriously don't think I could handle that strategy.

Plus...especially as caleum...if your mages are dying you've lost the battle.