SC/Thug rating

[Saber Cherry]

I used to use fully decked Slayers as thugs, but they just die, even with a Lifelong Protection.

Proof that Assassins are not thugs:

0) Assume Assassins are thugs.
1) Regen is GREAT on living thugs.
2) Regen is not useful very unless the unit can survive taking damage a few times during a round of combat.
3) Units with less than about ceil(2d6) HP cannot take damage even once without a considerable risk of death.
4) Assassins have less than ceil(2d6) HP.
5) Therefore, regen is not very useful on Assassins.
6) This contradicts the original assumption, 0.

I'd be interested in hearing how you use them, though. I have found that even Black Servants, starting with 18 HP, ethereality, high MR, life-drain, and various immunities STILL can't be effective thugs. Maybe my definition of thug is too severe?

Edit: I also liked to use Werewolves as thugs, due to integral regen and decent stats. They always died too. I've had some success with Jotun Herses, though, using a Fire, Nature, or Water bless.

[Saber Cherry]

I'd like to mention that the original purpose of my combat simulator was to "rate thugs", by the way... I wanted to perfect Ice Devil SCs and Slayer loadouts to maximize their effectiveness. Otherwise, it was very hard to decide between (for example) an Amulet of Luck versus Bracers of Protection to fill the last free slot. It works quite well in that role, though it doesn't handle auras or buff spells, so you can't really evaluate the effectiveness of a Rime Hauberk, Unquenched Sword, or a particular spell script before charging.

[Wish]

normal assassins arent great for thugs, but succubi are

[shovah]

assasins arent the best thugs but they can do it. try wraith sword, robe of shadows, flying shoes, pendant of luck and ring of regen on an assasin. hes very hard to hit (only 25% of regular hits affect him and 50% of those are canceled by luck) if he can reach enemy archers hes usually okay and his stealthyness allows him to avoid most tough things (although i admit assasins arent great thugs)

[Daynarr]

Assassins I'd try to use for thugs are generally decked to get as high defense as possible and have as many attacks as possibe to take out weak troops fast. Also luck and wraith crown are important assets for him (undead to help him and etherealness). No regen/life stealing as he has such low hp that he dies if he gets hit anyway. The idea is not to get hit. Still, they really aren't great thugs.

[shovah]

yea, i was going to mention wraith crown but iirc its a high cost and better avoided on thugs. how about this:
gloves of the gladiator (4 attacks, 8 defence)
horror helmet (fear)
robe of shadows (ethereal)
boots of quickness (extra defence, attacks and movement)
lucky pendant (luck)
cat charm (extra defence)

or you could give it to a black servant and replace the robe with something more useful

[OG_Gleep]

Wouldn't any commander be a decent thug with all the equipment you guys listed? Whats the difference between an assasin used as a thug and a indie commander with that equip setup? The weapon takes away the assasins poison, or lifedrain (depending on what your using as a chassis), and the robe of shadows grants etheral, which puts in on par with some assasins. Only difference is stealth, which if he's being used as a thug...your not going to be needing that much.

[Saber Cherry]

shovah said:
gloves of the gladiator (4 attacks, 8 defence)

When I read that, I quickly loaded up my 'research' game and looked at Gloves of the Gladiator, and...

Sure enough, they're only 3 damage, 1 attack, 1 defense. Where are you getting 8 from? If they were 8 defense I might use them now and then