Oblivion

[OG_Gleep]

Right thats true, you could theoretically do that, but the original game capped at level 20. Some modules wanted you to be lvl 3, some were for level 10, some recommended totally new characters. Even if you ignored the character level recommendations, you would still hit that cap after completing a few of them. There may be some mods out now that are ment for players that have reached the CAP, but I didn't see them..and I don't know how much fun it is an option.

It just seemed to me that the module system was perfect for people who loved to "try everything" a game has to offer. I'm just not one of those people.

[Vicious Love]

Getting back on topic, I couldn't help but notice that Bethesda:

A) Have not even implemented combat from horseback, nor any other remotely innovative feature. "Radiant AI" was more impressive in Ultima VII, where at least the NPCs did something other than stand in one location and stare at a wall for a few hours, then move elsewhere and do the same.

B) Nonetheless have the gall to charge US $2.50 for a meaningless little horse-related feature which
B1) Is moddable with negligible difficulty for the PC version of the game, and just a few shades more difficulty for the X-Box version.
B2) Was already completed long before Oblivion even went gold. As were most of their other overpriced upcoming expansions, I'll wager.

Very much doubt I'll be supporting this particular developer/publisher combo with my money.

[Graeme Dice]

Vicious Love said:
A) Have not even implemented combat from horseback, nor any other remotely innovative feature.

Why do people care about innovation? Innovation does not make a good game. It's an upgraded version of Morrowind, with many of the problems fixed, and one of the best melee combat models since Die by the Sword. If no combat from horseback is a dealbreaker, then I question whether you are the correct type of person to enjoy any game of this type in the first place.

"Radiant AI" was more impressive in Ultima VII, where at least the NPCs did something other than stand in one location and stare at a wall for a few hours, then move elsewhere and do the same.

Well, since they _don't_ just do that, I'd wonder whether you've even played Oblivion. Of course, since you haven't purchased it by your admission below, I'd certainly hope that you haven't played it yet.

B) Nonetheless have the gall to charge US $2.50 for a meaningless little horse-related feature which
B1) Is moddable with negligible difficulty for the PC version of the game, and just a few shades more difficulty for the X-Box version.
B2) Was already completed long before Oblivion even went gold. As were most of their other overpriced upcoming expansions, I'll wager.

Remember people, it's unethical for companies to charge for their products.

Very much doubt I'll be supporting this particular developer/publisher combo with my money.

I'd like to know how you know anything about the AI behaviour of the NPCs when you haven't even purchased the game.

[PrinzMegaherz]

Graeme Dice said:
It's an upgraded version of Morrowind, with many of the problems fixed, and one of the best melee combat models since Die by the Sword.

No insults, please. The combat engine of Die by the Swords is light years ahead of the one used in Oblivion

[Vicious Love]

Graeme Dice said:

Why do people care about innovation?

[/quote]

I dunno. Possibly because each and every preview of the game promised us volumes upon volumes of innovation?
Or possibly because many of us were fundamentally dissatisfied with many core aspects of Morrowind, and no innovation means no changing these core aspects?
Or maybe we just like the idea of game development not grinding to a screeching halt in the present day, because our games are perfectly all right as they currently are, and there's really nothing new to invent? If games like Oblivion don't take the vanguard, what will?

Innovation does not make a good game.

Every worthwhile computer game since Pong begs to differ. Innovation may not be sufficient, but without it you're just regurgitating the same old stuff with better graphics and a steeper price tag.

It's an upgraded version of Morrowind, with many of the problems fixed, and one of the best melee combat models since Die by the Sword.

Erm... no. It's not really much better than Fable's, either. And it can't begin to compare to Mount & Blade's system.

If no combat from horseback is a dealbreaker, then I question whether you are the correct type of person to enjoy any game of this type in the first place.

This is a cutting-art, state-of-the-edge game that uses a revolutionary third-party tree rendering program and an even more revolutionary "NPCs walk from point A to point B" system, and yet it can't afford to throw in a feature that was available in Daggerfall? I realize it would be a mite trickier to make it work, what with no longer using sprite-based graphics and all, but come on. Speaking of the Point A to Point B engine...

Well, since they _don't_ just do that, I'd wonder whether you've even played Oblivion. Of course, since you haven't purchased it by your admission below, I'd certainly hope that you haven't played it yet.

'fraid I have. It was decent, but you could still see the strings.

Remember people, it's unethical for companies to charge for their products.

See above. Honestly, this is just a cheap shot on behalf of BethSoft's marketing department.

I'd like to know how you know anything about the AI behaviour of the NPCs when you haven't even purchased the game.

Go ahead, take a guess.

[Graeme Dice]

Vicious Love said:
I dunno. Possibly because each and every preview of the game promised us volumes upon volumes of innovation?

Really? Can you provide a half-dozen or so previews that claim that the game will be innovative?

Or possibly because many of us were fundamentally dissatisfied with many core aspects of Morrowind, and no innovation means no changing these core aspects?

What core asects would you expect to change? It's still an Elder Scrolls game, so it's not like any reasonable person would expect radically different gameplay.

If games like Oblivion don't take the vanguard, what will?

I'd rather have a fun game than an innovative game.

Every worthwhile computer game since Pong begs to differ.

If you only consider innovative games to be worthwhile, then you must not enjoy very many computer games.

Innovation may not be sufficient, but without it you're just regurgitating the same old stuff with better graphics and a steeper price tag.

Well, since there's absolutely nothing wrong with creating games that are similar to old games but that have better graphics, I fail to see your complaint. Your complaint about price is also pure nonsense, since Morrowind and Oblivion both cost exactly the same numerical price: $59.99 CDN. Of course, that $59.99 CDN in 2006 for Oblivion is actually cheaper than the $59.99 CDN in 2002 for Morrowind. Game prices have dropped tremendously over the past 20 years.

Erm... no. It's not really much better than Fable's, either. And it can't begin to compare to Mount & Blade's system.

Mount and Blade has a gimmicky, easily exploited combat system that lets a character right out of the gate fight off a dozen attackers just by backpedaling and letting them form a single file line. Further, your demand that the combat be perfect is quite ridiculous. It doesn't need to be perfect, it merely needs to be good.

This is a cutting-art, state-of-the-edge game that uses a revolutionary third-party tree rendering program and an even more revolutionary "NPCs walk from point A to point B" system, and yet it can't afford to throw in a feature that was available in Daggerfall? I realize it would be a mite trickier to make it work, what with no longer using sprite-based graphics and all, but come on. Speaking of the Point A to Point B engine...

So let me ask you a simple question. What kind of actual gameplay value does combat from horseback add to a game?

'fraid I have. It was decent, but you could still see the strings.

You stated that you weren't going to support Bethesda with your money. That is a clear admission tha you haven't purchased the game. Further, if the game was "decent", by your own admission, then how can you possible have so much vitriol for it?

See above. Honestly, this is just a cheap shot on behalf of BethSoft's marketing department.

No, it's called an observation of the mindset of your typical person who feels that they are entitled to luxury goods at whatever price they want, rather than the price the seller decides to provide it at. Bethesda is perfectly within their rights to sell mods at whatever price they want to, since they have in no way shape, or form cheated you with your purchase. (Well, not your purchase, since you admitted that you won't be paying for the game even though you already played it.)

I'd like to know how you know anything about the AI behaviour of the NPCs when you haven't even purchased the game.

Go ahead, take a guess.

[/quote]

Okay, you are making observations about the AI behaviour because you pirated the game. It's nice to see that you're now trying to cover up your admission that you either haven't purchased, or haven't played Oblivion. Please don't bother, since I have no real reason to want to deal with liars.

[OG_Gleep]

Shovah - yeah they stack. You can create a chamealon suit, and be invisible.

VL - Yeah you can roleplay a pure theif, or a pure fighter or pure whatever you want to do. But he said he finished the assasins guild...so...I guess you can stop after you have done that.

[shovah]

ive taken it upon myself to kill people who insult me or my species, its kinda fun (too bad you cant kill important people)
so my low leveled characters achievements are:
arena grand champion
dark brotherhood listener
master alchemist
knight of the white stallion (dont ask)
somewhere in the thieves guild
a few others i cant think of

edit: thanks for clarifying the cameleon thing (i had a feeling they stacked since i could stand infront of people and not be noticed) but the problem now is finding a pair of cameleon greaves, boots and a helm. currently i have a spys curiass and the hands of midnight (20% cameleon, 30 sun damage and +10 hand to hand skill, not too bad especially for my level)
also if anyone wants a tip on how to quickly raise alchemy just fast travel to all the farms you have found and make a load of restore fatigue potions (can get quite alot of money too)

[OG_Gleep]

Yep, restore fatigue pots is the easiest way to quickly raise alchemy and get a little cash. Unfortunatley, we both put alchemy as a main skill. This can lead to some inflated levels, and I would recommend anyone starting or who has just begun to not do so.

A caution shovah, about the chamelon thing. It makes you totally invisible, and since its a equipment buff, its constant. You will be able to basically do anything you want and the NPCs won't be able to see or target you. Sorta like god mode, except with the NPCs yelling for you to come out. Some people dig it, but the majority of the people said it sucked out any kind of challenge.

About the AI - I have seen some pretty cool things, and the fact that its not scripted...we are moving in the right direction. Its not perfect, but its a window at whats to come. I don't understand why there is so much negativity towards Oblivion. Reminds me of PS2 fanboys on a Xbox forum.

[Saber Cherry]

Vicious Love said:
B) Nonetheless have the gall to charge US $2.50 for a meaningless little horse-related feature which
B1) Is moddable with negligible difficulty for the PC version of the game, and just a few shades more difficulty for the X-Box version.
B2) Was already completed long before Oblivion even went gold. As were most of their other overpriced upcoming expansions, I'll wager.

Not to mention that Horse Armor went on sale before they bothered to implement horse reins. Players still gallop around with arms in "I am holding reins" position, but no reins. Hmmm... sounds like quality support.