Bar vs FG42 is it a draw?

[Tarrif]

TheDesertFox said:
Beg your pardon but where do you get this wrong information from?

Almost every single book I have with the FG-42 in it says it was a weapon, designed from the very beginning, for paratrooper use. The emphasis was on being light-weight and compact, while trying to cram as much firepower as possible into those restrictions. The Garand and other rifles were designed to specifications of a much different priority. A better comparison for the FG-42 would be other weapons designed or modified for paratrooper use, such as the M1A1 Paratrooper Carbine I mentioned earlier (although those two weapons are in a different sub-class).

[TheDesertFox]

Tarrif said:
The emphasis was on being light-weight and compact, while trying to cram as much firepower as possible into those restrictions.

Tarrif, to make a long story short:

Was it designed to replace the Riflemens weapon(s) or was it designed to replace the LMG-Gunners weapon ?

What do your sources say ?

cheers

[Tarrif]

It was designed to provide firepower along the lines of a LMG but the accuracy of a rifle. For units like paratroopers, weapons were sometimes designed under the jack-of-all-trades principle. It was never meant to totally replace the rifle or the LMG - especially since it was complicated and expensive to produce. Had the FG-42 been quick and easy to produce, its possible it would have become the primary weapon of the Fallschrimjaegers, but that wasn't the case, so only one or two men per squad recieved them and they were used to augment the firepower of the squad.

[TheDesertFox]

Tarrif said:
It was designed to provide firepower along the lines of a LMG but the accuracy of a rifle. For units like paratroopers, weapons were sometimes designed under the jack-of-all-trades principle. It was never meant to totally replace the rifle or the LMG - especially since it was complicated and expensive to produce. Had the FG-42 been quick and easy to produce, its possible it would have become the primary weapon of the Fallschrimjaegers, but that wasn't the case, so only one or two men per squad recieved them and they were used to augment the firepower of the squad.

Tarrif,

thanks for your answer. In game terms this means it is used as a riflemens weapon (primary weapon) and not as a LMG (secondary weapon). That´s how things are represented in the game right now.

I just wanted this to be clear.

cheers

[narwan]

Tarrif said:
It was designed to provide firepower along the lines of a LMG but the accuracy of a rifle.

It's accuracy in the game is like that of rifles and its firepower (HE kill factor) is closer to that of lmg's. So that would make it about right as it currently is doesn't it?

Narwan

[DRG]

It does and that's the way it's going to stay.

Don

[Tarrif]

I'm not sure how it is in this game because I don't play this game. I joined this conversation because I saw the URL linked to my website on the first page. The original argument was that the FG-42 should be treated like the B.A.R., which I agreed with from a historical and technical point of view. Maybe from a gameplay point of view that doesn't make sense, but technically the FG-42 could be used in the same exact role. That was my original point.

I understand the game industry, and the players that go with it. I know some people don't want to see this changed because it doesn't favor their particular side, or because it might imbalance the game (in some respect). Its up to the developers if they want to put historical accuracy over game balance, or visa-versa. Sometimes historical accuracy isn't the best thing for a game - that's for them to decide.

[TheDesertFox]

Tarrif said:
I'm not sure how it is in this game because I don't play this game. I joined this conversation because I saw the URL linked to my website on the first page. The original argument was that the FG-42 should be treated like the B.A.R., which I agreed with from a historical and technical point of view. Maybe from a gameplay point of view that doesn't make sense, but technically the FG-42 could be used in the same exact role. That was my original point.

I understand the game industry, and the players that go with it. I know some people don't want to see this changed because it doesn't favor their particular side, or because it might imbalance the game (in some respect). Its up to the developers if they want to put historical accuracy over game balance, or visa-versa. Sometimes historical accuracy isn't the best thing for a game - that's for them to decide.

Tarrif,

no problem with that, no hard feelings on my side and I hope none on your side either.

The game has it´s limitations, that´s for sure. However, as you basically told us from your sources:

the FG42 was used (designed) to be a weapon which increased the riflemens firepower. Basically (in game terms) this means some men had the FG42, some men had the 98K and some the MP40, also there always was the regular LMG(s) in the german Squad OOB. Unfortunately (that´s how the game was designed from the beginning, going back to the original SSI OOB structure) the game doesn´t allow to represent such a mixture of weapons unless you leave out the MG34/42 as a SAW for the squad (which is historically unrealistic).

This leaves the game- or enthusiastic OOB-designer with the following options:

1.) leave it as is (FG42 as primary (riflemens) weapon in squad) and (MG34/42 as LMG - secondary weapon)

2.) or create a new secondary FG42 which may have been used as a SAW - BUT - at the same time leave out the MG34/42 as a squad SAW (secondary weapon).

I think option 1 is more realistic and historically accurate (keeping in mind the limitations of the game).

Nevertheless the game offers everything necessary to try out option 2. Start up Mobhack and feel free to do some experiments.

That´s one of the great things about this game and the SP-series in general: The user can adapt the OOBs to his personal preferences and play with it. Where do you find this kind of flexibillity in other wargames ?

cheers

[chuckfourth]

Fair enough
There wouldnt be any chance of giving it the same hit as BAR, 5? And giving it a bit better range? After all I hear it performed well as a rifle, Accurate out to 800m or so I here tell.

by the way thanks for your tireless devotion to the game.
Best Chuck.

[pdoktar]

Mmm.. If you would give weapon slot 1 weapon FG-42 the same kill of weapon slot 2 weapon BAR of 5, then it would outperform every modern TRUE assault rifle in WinSPMBT, that uses the same engine as WinSPWW2 (not to mention acc. of 20, so it would represent a base-to-hit acc. percentage of 50 in 1000 meters range). So germans invented the superior assault rifle already in 1942? Put it on weapon slot 2 as a SAW, if you wan´t BAR´s statistics, as I already said some 4 pages ago. Problem solved.