Mictlan

[Oversway]

Would it count if nations had more recruitable sc type troops? Maybe they cost 1000 gold (or more) apiece so you don't start recruiting them until late game when you have tons of gold.

Of course, the other national troops would still become worthless.

[Saber Cherry]

Oversway said:

Would it count if nations had more recruitable sc type troops? Maybe they cost 1000 gold (or more) apiece so you don't start recruiting them until late game when you have tons of gold.

Of course, the other national troops would still become worthless.

Wouldn't help, because summons need no upkeep.

[NTJedi]

Saber Cherry said:

Wouldn't help, because summons need no upkeep.

I agree the upkeep percentage from 1000 gold would be quite high even being sacred.

Most summoned units have multiple advantages over national troops. Some of these include:
Never flee in battle
Never needs food
No gold upkeep
More powerful

Ways national troops can be improved:
1) Allow most nations to have their national troops increase population for whatever province they reside.
2) Allow national troops to be upgraded making their gold/food upkeep more acceptable. one example listed by: DominionsFAN
3) Allow some method for national troops to be upgraded with gems.
4) Allow national troops to provide increased morale, defense and attack for province defense... seems logical their presence within the province would have this effect. Perhaps for this bonus to work the national troops would have to be equal to the province defense, thus 10 PD would need 10 national troops for the bonus.

[Fate]

What about making higher level summons require more than 1 command slot? Is that possible? It would make sense, as those monsters would take more concentration to control...

Another possibility is making some national troops specifically designed for late game (higher Magic Resistance, maybe some special abilities...) , but their stats & higher cost make them useless vs. early game indies.

A final possibility is making buffs that affect only recruited troops, but not summoned ones.

[Sandman]

Just make national troops better. Give them more cool abilities. The best national troops (Vans, Jotuns, Pangaeans) all have multiple great abilities, whilst human troops only have a few stat increments here and there.

For example, why not give all mundane humans doubled experience to represent their flexibility? And yes, they can get ten stars.

[NTJedi]

Sandman said:
Just make national troops better. Give them more cool abilities. The best national troops (Vans, Jotuns, Pangaeans) all have multiple great abilities, whilst human troops only have a few stat increments here and there.

For example, why not give all mundane humans doubled experience to represent their flexibility? And yes, they can get ten stars.

excellent suggestions I will add those to the list:

Most summoned units have multiple advantages over national troops. Some of these include:
Never flee in battle
Never needs food
No gold upkeep
More powerful

Ways national troops can be improved:
1) Allow most nations to have their national troops increase population for whatever province they reside.
2) Allow national troops to be upgraded making their gold/food upkeep more acceptable. one example listed by: DominionsFAN
3) Allow some method for national troops to be upgraded with gems.
4) Allow national troops to provide increased morale, defense and attack for province defense... seems logical their presence within the province would have this effect. Perhaps for this bonus to work the national troops would have to be equal to the province defense, thus 10 PD would need 10 national troops for the bonus.
5) Providing national troops with increased statistics by receiving faster experience upgrades and the ability to receive higher experience thus 10 stars instead of 5 stars. as suggested by Sandman

[DominionsFan]

Guys, that wont work. Basic national troops cant be much better, that would imbalance the early-mid game summons. Minor basic national troop upgrades wont help, so its not necessary at all. Like I said, imho the only way to "play" with national troops in mid/late game is to add mid [call it level 2] / high [call it level 3] national troop summons. That way the basic "vanilla" [level 1] national troops would be obsolete in mid game, and the mid game national troops coming from summons [level 2] would be obsolete in the end game, when the player would be able to summon level 3 national troops. I think this is the best way, in fact Im gonna try to do this in my mod. I am pretty sure that this is doable somehow with modding.

[Sandman]

It depends on the nature of the improvement. Some abilities don't matter in the early game, but become good later on.

For example, if you were to give magical weapons to all Ulmish troops, it wouldn't really affect the early game, but it would make Ulm perform far better in the late game, with a lot of ethereal creatures in play.

[Nerfix]

How about adding some of the features the summoned units are called for the national units?

Light infantries could have some terrain survival traits and elite units could have minor resistance to elements or magic, and some of the units could have magic weapons. Say, a Knight of the Chalice might have a magic sword that has an AoE 1 attack that damages undead and demons as an addition, and 25% fire resistance.

Maybe all sacred 'knightly' units could have weapons that do anti-undead/demon damage. A KotC or Black Templar could take on a Devil and actually whoop it's barb-tailed rear.

Temple Guards, who are admitedly good now, could have a 25% shock resistance slightly stronger weapons than regular caelian weapons.

Same goes for other nations. Saber Cherry (IIRC) had a mod which gave the heavier Ulmish unit a 25% Fire/Shock/Cold resistance and slightly improved MR along with other tweaks. If I remember correctly their weapons were also considered magical which propably helped a lot against ethereal units.

And so on. These are just some minor suggestions, and shouldn't be by any mean restricted to just the nations I mentioned.

[Kristoffer O]

Sandman said:
Just make national troops better. Give them more cool abilities. The best national troops (Vans, Jotuns, Pangaeans) all have multiple great abilities, whilst human troops only have a few stat increments here and there.

For example, why not give all mundane humans doubled experience to represent their flexibility? And yes, they can get ten stars.

There is no race more conservative and less flexible than the human race.