Bar vs FG42 is it a draw?

[cbo]

Oh chucky,

So many posts and nothing but hot air

chuckfourth said:
Yes and of course changing one weapon slot in maybe two squads in a game with thousands of units is a really massive change.

No, it is easy enough to do, if you are willing to sacrifice some of the other weapons in the squad.

Your proposal of simply giving weapon one "BAR values" will make ALL FG42 in the squad operate like LMGs and seriously compromise gameplay. If you weren't too lazy to try it, you would know.

But as you can see, the game designers see the FG42 primarily as an infantrymans main weapon - a rifle. If you want to change their minds, you need to document that it was used primarily as an LMG. Hit the books, Chuck!

You can throw as many tantrums as you like, that wont do anything more than amuse and perhaps earn you a post as the boards village idiot if you work real hard at it

Thats the end of story as far as I'm concerned - unless of course you can produce any documentation that supports you point of view.

Claus B

[chuckfourth]

Hm very interesting post,
Giving slot one BAR values just means that we are allocating one of 7 rifles the LMG role? And also goes some way towards reflecting the enhanced firepower a squad has when armed with these weapons in place of the Mauser, ie better ROF, better range, ability to respond to any given situation as a LMG, rifle of assault rifle, I dont really want to change anyones minds they can make there own decisions, I am just presenting a case. This is of course difficult to do because posters such as yourself insist on wasting valuable bandwidth with red herrings, misinformation and by ignoring any point that is actually valid.
If you are having trouble coping with people that disagree with you perhaps you should do an anger management course?
Regards Chuck.

[Marek_Tucan]

Giving weapon class 1 in slot 1 LMG values means that ALL of the men would be using it as LMG. If it is a primary weapon, it is to be used as rifle. If you want it in SAW role, make separate weapon, SAW version with the stats you like and create a modified infantry unit where you sacrifice one of secondary weapons for this.

[narwan]

Ramble all you want Chuck but here are the facts:

FG42's as automatic rifles (ie treated as primairy weapons in the game)are protrayed historically accurate in the game in relation to other weapons (when oh when will you ever understand there is more than just the BAR to compare it too?). Their higher firepower (HE kill 3) can easily be interpreted as one man out of the whole squad using it as a not so very good lmg while the rest is shooting them as rifles.
Lets do the math shall we? Lets say 8 men are using it as a rifle which would correspond to a HE kill of 2 for each (just look at other rifle type PRIMAIRY weapons in the game). Lets say not one but even 2 are firing it ala lmg. I'd give it a HE kill 4 in that role but let's be nice and put it in at 5. So 8 times 2 plus 2 times 5 is 26. Divided by 10 (the total number of men firing it) that makes the average HE kill 2.6, and we were nice enough to round that up to 3 too. Now say thanks.

IF you would want, for your own personal amusement, to make it a SECONDARY weapon, which is the category all lmg fall into in this game, it should have a HE kill score of 4 or 5 (debatable which it should be) and an accuracy of about 15 as it was much less accurate as an lmg than, oh lets say the BAR.

The designers need to make choices. They did make them, and as historically accurate as could be expected for this game. Some people might disagree with those choices, fair enough. So they were given this wonderful tool that comes with the game to change it to their liking. Still not happy they complain that they want others to share those changes with them. So they are given this wonderful forum to put their view forward and to post their own modified OB's and other mods on so everyone who's interested can take a look at them and decide for themselves if they want to use them or not. Many people have done this already (just check the WinSPMBT forum, and the first mods are appearing here already aswel).

End of this debate. Undoubtedly see you at the next one.

Narwan

[chuckfourth]

Thanks Narwan
The con side finally gives a little ground, bravo!
But just think how much of Clauses precious bandwidth you would have saved if you had come up with math at the beginning! What you have made poor Claus endure! Ok so Ill go with the hit of 3. But there still remains the question of range and accuracy, as posted previously dont you think it should have a better accuracy and range because of the scope and bipod? Seems the game treats it as a rifle for calculating hit and a shoulder fired inaccurate auto when calculating range and accuracy? If its going to be treated predominatley as a rifle shouldnt it get a scoped rifles accuracy and range values? not sure what accuracy that should be, but range would be 800m After all it was introduced to give the paratroopers long range hitting power.
Regards Chuck.

[narwan]

chuckfourth said:
Thanks Narwan
The con side finally gives a little ground, bravo!

Nope, you're just showing your own ignorance on the matter. Don't go giving yourself compliments.
I have said nothing new. I have merely explaned for the so maniest time why the stats are correct as they are.

Narwan

[chuckfourth]

Hi Narwan
If the FG42 is to be treated as a rifle then why doesnt it get its rifle range of 800m and the accuracy that goes with having a scope?
Regards Chuck.