Dismounted PanzerGrenadiers coy.

[DRG]

chuckfourth said:
The Protze has a much better cross country abiltiy than the Opel. This is important when the grenadiers are trying to follow tanks. Not to mention that if the protze was used the grenadier coy would now have effectively 6 rather than 3 squads very different to what we now have ie a lot more flexable.

True enough, the Protze with A/T wheel capability would be better at following tanks and I will consider that change but splitting the Pzgren squads in half so they could be placed into 6 Protze is not going to happen.

Don

[chuckfourth]

Hi DRG
Something else I have found that may have bearing on the discusion, the TOE for the gross duetchland panzergrenadier regiment.
http://chrito.users1.50megs.com/kstn...eutschgelb.htm
Again this TOE shows the rifle coys to be equiped with LMGs However note the the fourth heavy/schwere company of each batttalion does seem to have a MMG per squad. Perhaps this is what the Schützenpanzer reference is referring to? not the rifle squads in the rifle coys but the "rifle" squads in the Battalions 4th heavy support coy?

Would I be rude to ask why the panzergrenadier squads wont be split? is it to much work, not feasable, not realistc? The TOE shows 6 protze trucks per platoon each would carry a 6 men plus the driver, ie a 2 man LMG team and 3 riflemen plus the section leader with LMG?

also this link may be of interest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grossde...deutschland.22

[cbo]

chuckfourth said:
Would I be rude to ask why the panzergrenadier squads wont be split? is it to much work, not feasable, not realistc? The TOE shows 6 protze trucks per platoon each would carry a 6 men plus the driver, ie a 2 man LMG team and 3 riflemen plus the section leader with LMG?

Generally, small units die or become ineffective much quicker than larger ones.
Also the game is really based on the squad (or individual vehicle) as the smallest unit, save some special cases. You would get some squads that plays like a single unit and some where the player will have to dabble in squad tactics.

So some squads will be more resilient because they are big, others will be more flexible because they are split. Not because they were any different in reality but simply because they used different transports.

Furthermore, once you start splitting units, you double the number of units that has to be handled and reduce the number of actual squads in the game by 50%.

Plenty of reasons NOT to split units, really

Claus B

[chuckfourth]

HI Claus
Yes I am well aware of the play penalties associated with the projected two six man rather than one twelve man grenadier squads. However if one is worried about the inherent fragility of a 6 man suad one could simply play the squads in one hex. Though this will not play exactly the same as a 12 man squad it is a pretty close approximation. Even though you disagree with a 6 man grenadier squad, I notice that the game is quite happy to field a 5 man paratrooper squad? When I raised this issue, the thread was ignored, so while I have your attention, would you be able to tell us what the 5 man paratrooper squad represents? And if it does represent a LMG team why isnt it 3 man and size 0 like those in the rest of the game?
Regards Chuck

[cbo]

chuckfourth said:
Yes I am well aware of the play penalties associated with the projected two six man rather than one twelve man grenadier squads. However if one is worried about the inherent fragility of a 6 man suad one could simply play the squads in one hex. Though this will not play exactly the same as a 12 man squad it is a pretty close approximation. Even though you disagree with a 6 man grenadier squad, I notice that the game is quite happy to field a 5 man paratrooper squad?

I dont object to a 5 or 6 man squad if that is how it was in real life. What I do object to is to start operating with half-squads when the game is really based on squads as the smallest unit. Much better to modify the transport to carry the full squad instead, IMHO.

When I raised this issue, the thread was ignored, so while I have your attention, would you be able to tell us what the 5 man paratrooper squad represents? And if it does represent a LMG team why isnt it 3 man and size 0 like those in the rest of the game?

I know it will be an earthshattering surprise to you Chuck, but game designers and playtesters are not put on this earth exclusively to serve you every whim and every call.


Claus B

[chuckfourth]

Hi Claus
The game is not based on squads. There are just a lot of squads in the game. The game quite happily represents single men, pairs of men 3 man groups etc ect ect. So as you cant actually present any reason why we cant have the 6 man squads I guess its because you dont like the idea?
Re paratrooper squads for someone who considers himself such an authority on the game and WWII in general its interesting how you duck this question, somehow I think there is something fishy?
Regards Chuck.

[DRG]

The size of the PzGren squads we have in the game will stay as they are now. That's a design decision. I am not reducing the ones we have now in size nor will I be adding new ones specifically for the Moterized PzGren formations. Again, that's a design decision. You could have 6 man Pzgren half squads if you open up MOBHack and edit them then see how all that fits together with the pre-existing PzGren formations then test to see how that all works in the game. That's why we provide MOBHack with the game.


Don

[wulfir]

chuckfourth said:
The game is not based on squads. There are just a lot of squads in the game.

Oh, I'd say it's based on squads all right.

chuckfourth said:So as you cant actually present any reason why we cant have the 6 man squads I guess its because you dont like the idea?

I don't like the idea of half-squads much either.
I sometimes use Panzeraufklarer sections to represent depleted German squads. They don't have much staying power compared to full-squads...

[Mobhack]

Chuck

Have you actually read the manual for the game?. It seems not, as the fitst section on the first page is entitled What is WinSPWW2?.

And if you read that section you will see:

One unit playing piece represents one vehicle or gun, or an infantry section or squad of up to 19 men or a section of 1 to 4 support weapons

.

Should you bring up a valid point, we may feel it necessary to adjust the issue OOBS, however we are not going to get into endless repetetive arguments about whether some rifle should be 2 or 3 HE kill points, or some section 10 men or 11.

We have already pointed you to the Mobhack editor, where you can make minor adjustments to adjust the game OOBS to suit your particular world-view.

Now, on the old abandoned Yahoo message board, you got into endless circular arguments about anti-tank rifles and whether 5mm of armour should count as 1 cm or whatever. This obsessive focussing on game trivia led you to getting banned from there as a "troll". As did "Leopold Leo" for similar behaviour.

You are rapidly going that way on this board.

Trolling is forbidden under the board rules (you can see these if you click on the link on the top right of the message board screen). It can lead to your account being terminated.

Cheers
Andy