.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Raging Tiger- Save $9.00
winSPMBT: Main Battle Tank- Save $5.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > The Camo Workshop > WinSPWW2 > TO&Es
Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 30th, 2006, 12:56 PM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
Shrapnel Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 12,658
Thanks: 4,094
Thanked 5,862 Times in 2,893 Posts
DRG will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Polish OOB

Blaz

What's wrong with the armour on the 7tp ? That link doesn't work. Just spelling out what it is and what you think it should be and why works best. I do not see a problem with the 2 all around for this vehicle we have now

I'll talk with Andy about the radio

I fixed the PIC

Don
__________________


"You are never to old to rock and roll if you are too young to die".--- What do you expect to be doing when you are 80?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kWt8ELuDOc
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old July 4th, 2006, 06:06 AM
blazejos's Avatar

blazejos blazejos is offline
First Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pila, North west Poland
Posts: 640
Thanks: 382
Thanked 241 Times in 166 Posts
blazejos is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Polish OOB

Explanation of the of this phenomen why 7TP has too weak armour need a comprasion with another tanks from the Vickers 6-Ton (Mk.E) family like rusian T-26 and vickers tanks in another cauntrys service and as I saw we have a mess with this.

First I think a best page with story of Vickers 6-Ton http://derela.republika.pl/vae.htm

First lets see in polish OOB

unit 449 that is Vickers E Mk.A buy in GB by polish Goverment. That is a orginal british version only a HMG are polish wz.25 So how looks this tanks has 3 people crew , can carry 6 soliders on armour , his weight is 10, speed 12 because 35km/h:3 give 11,6666... so speed is round up . Radio only 22 because has no radio. FC=1 and RF=1 Survability=3 like for this tanks class and the moust important thing the armour hull: front and sides - 13mm, rear - 8mm ,turret (both single-turret and twin-turret)13mm all around top and bottom - 5mm so is HF=2 , HS=2 , HR=1 , TF=2 , TS=2 , TR=1 , Top=1 So I have a proposition change TR =2 because turent has armour all the same. ROF for MG version is 9. I thing this parameters should good describe a standard UK made Vickers tank with two turents.

Unit 450 that is Vickers E Mk.B typical tank from GB with 47mm Vickers gun and here with polish wz.30 CMG insted of 7.7mm vickers CMG. All parameters are like previous version except FC=2 single turent version has a optic sight and armour should be hanged TR=2 like in previous unit. ROF=8 because gun is not so fast like TMG in two turents version and icon is of course with single turent. lbm is not good because represents leter polish rebuild variant with air inlets but here is not rebuild version so should be lbm 27614

Unit 638 is for remove because represents this same units what 449 is a clone

Unit 639 Represent Mk.A with polish only rebuild air intakes , camo from years 34-36. This version has in one of the turents 13.2mm TMG The lbm what should be good for this version is PM30225-old.LBM you can see on this photo a longer TMG in one turent. In armour HR is 2 for all polish tanks with rebuild air intakes. TR shuld be changed TR=2. Radio code is 21 because not many of tanks was rebuild for this standart.

Unit 640
The same rebuild what previous unit but with old 37mm SA18 puteaux gun TR should be 2. Radio code too with 21 because not many rebuild

Unit 641
Standart version with two wz.25 TMG .TR should be changed
TR=2 like in previous tanks here I propositioned a new lbm Pm29427.lbm because previous photo represents tank without air intakes Icon too ned changes to for old camo version summer and desert icon should be 3472 for winter 3473

Unit 642
too standart version but after rearm to wz.30 TMG. in armour too change for TR=2 is need and lbm I propositioned Pm29428.lbm represents tank with air intakes and wz.30 TMG. As you can see in this last configuration was used by polish in 1939

Unit 643
Is not need should be removed this unit is a clone of unit 450

Unit 644
Vickers one turent in old camo and with air intake so HR is 2. In this tank TR should be changed to 2 because turent with gun was 13mm all around like in two turent version

Unit 645
The same tank like previous but with new camo TR should be 2

Unit 646
the same what previous TR should be 2 but after euiped all vickers single turent tanks in radio so Radio is 82


Rusian OOB

Rusian buy this Vickers tanks and than made his own T-26.
Unit 518 represents this orginal UK made tanks. speed should be changed to 12 not 10 like is today. DT TMG are good rusian arms this tanks in his own TMGs. TR should be 2 like changes in polish oob. Icon is from T-26 M1931 what is very similar I proposition put here a new Vickers icons what are in atachment. I propositioned too change a lbm to 27617 because this today represents vickers tank in polish camo.

Chinse comunists OOB

Unit 005 as I supppouse is a Vickers Vickers E Mk.B single turent variant. What should be changed: Crew should be 3 , Speed 12 , Radio should be 8X because chinse tanks was radio equiped , gun weapon 019 I think is not good compare with weapon 023 in polish oob ammo for gun should be HE=25 and AP=24 tank has 49 shells. In slot two should be Vickers CMG , Vickers BMG should be removed in slot 4. FC should be changed to 2. In Armour HF changed to 2 , HR=1 , TF=2. Icon is from vickers 12-ton tank I propositioned put here a special icon for chinse vickers tanks with radio roof in turent rear icon 3481. LBMs for chinse Vickers E one turents are 27612 and 27613

Unit 288
No info about buy to china a two turent variant of Vickers tank so meyby should be removed? but if you want leve here this tank need changes. Crew:3 , Speed:12 , TR=2 , ROF=9 Icon is taken from T-26 M1931 I propositioned put here a new vickers icons. Propositioned lbm 27617

Bulgarian OOB

Unit 001
change speed:12 , FC=2 , RF=1 , Gun to weapon like 023 in polish OOB , AP ammo should be 24 , TR armour should be 2 as a icon I propositioned new vickers icons in fabric camo 3480.

Unit 282
Need the same changes like unit 001

Nationalist China OOB

Unit 005
need the same changes like unit 005 in Comunists china OOB

Unit 288
need the same changes like unit 288 in Comunists china OOB

In 1935 china buy 23 Dragon, Medium Mk.IV based on vickers E

Netherlands OOB

Unit 309
gun I thing need comprasion see weapon 023 in polish OOB in netherlads parameters are difrents ammo changes HE=25 AP=24 Saboot =0. Another changes FC=2 , HF=2 , HR=1 , TF=2. Icon can be changed to one of new icons in atachment

Greece OOB

Unit 365
Crew=3 , Speed=12 , TR=2 icon can be changed from T-26 M1931 to one of the new Vickers E Mk.A icons

Unit 366
lbm should be changed because represents polish variant with air intakes I propositioned 27611 or 27614. Speed=12 , FC=2 , HF=2 , HR=1 , TF=2. Gun should be compared to weapon 023 in polish OOB ammo AP=24 , Sabot=0. Icon can be changed to one of the new vickers icons

Finland OOB
Finlan buy in 1933 one single turent variant for test with 47mm orginal gun. Than in years 1938-1939 buy 33 tanks some with Mark E hull the last with Mark F hull. Tanks were without guns so Finns buy in bofors fabric 37mm guns the same what were used in polish 7TP tanks. In the first period tanks were unarmed or armet with one TMG or 37mm puteaux makeschift. Than were armed in 37mm gun but with makeshift sights because germans don't sell optics for gun.

Unit 004
Schould be Crew=3 , Radio meaby 20? , Ammo for gun HE=25 AP=50 Sabot=5 like in 7TP see to the weapon 14 shuld have the same parameters like weapon 015 in Polish OOB. Wapon in slot 2 should be Maxim CMG. RF=1 armour HS=2 , TS=2 , TR=2 I proposition add a new icon of this tank made specialy for finish Vickers.

I proposition too add a new units what represents a late vickers tanks with Mark.F hull all parameters should be the same like unit 004 after modification but HR=2 because F version hull has difrent (better) shape of hull and icons from scope 3483-3486. Next new unit what can be add for finish OOB is T-26E this is a Vickers E with 45mm gun weapon 018 and DT CMG demounted from destroyed T-26 with optic FC=1 RF=1. LBM 23556 represents this tank.

Siam (Thailand) OOB

Unit 010
Carry=6 , Speed=12 , FC=2 , Gun wepon 204 should be compared to weapon 023 in polish OOB ammo HE=25 AP=24 Sabot=0 Armour HF=2 , HR=1 , TF=2 icon can be take from new vickers icon in atachment

Unit 020
AA SP-vehicle based on Vickers E should have lbm 9008 this today is wrong speed=12 weapon should be 019 2-pdr AA gun and armour HF=2 Icon for this vehicle should be 3482.

Unit 019
That is not a vickers E based vehicle but is mis-mach with unit 020 shuld have lbm 17025 weapon 007 insted of pom-pom

Unit 370
Need this changes what was made in unit 010 icon 3480 should be good

I propositioned in unit 370 change start date to 1939 so this unit can represents secound series of tanks with Mark.F hull if this change be made HR should be 2 and nd icons from scope 3483-3486 should be used

Blue OOB

Unit 001
Crew=3 Speed=12 Radio=22 , TR=2 Icon can be used some of the new for Vickers E vehicles insted of this from T-26. One of bolivian Mk.A were captured together with singl turent version were sold by Paraquay goverment to republican spain in 1937.

Unit 002
Crew=3 Speed=12 Radio=22 Ammo AP=24 ,FC=2 , TR=2 , icon 3480 , lbm 27611 should be good because this tank has no air intakes. Year I proposited to change start year to 1933
because in this year Bolivia aquired from vickers fabric single turent Vickers E and use them in Gran-Chaco war with Paraquay and captured by enemy in december 1933. From Paraquay tank were sold to republican spain in January 1937

British OOB

Britain has four of this tanks in takes by goverment after WWII starts that was last from the series for Thailand with Mark.F hull I propositioned put this tank for home guard vehicles or experimental vehicles.

I propositioned too add a Dragon, Medium Mk.IV artilery tractor Vickers build 12 vehicles for british army


I thing that was a vehicle like unit 020 AA vehicle in Thailand OOB but without pom-pom gun and turent armour icon for this vehicle is 3447. All vehicles were in BEF and were destroyed in Dunquierque in 1940 were used for towed 60-pdr guns (127 mm)

India OOB
In 1937 India bought 18 Dragon, Medium Mk.IV
Attached Files
File Type: zip 432645-dodatki.zip (30.2 KB, 329 views)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 4th, 2006, 09:33 AM

PN79 PN79 is offline
Private
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 43
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
PN79 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Polish OOB

Quote:
blazejos said:
Explanation of the of this phenomen why 7TP has too weak armour need a comprasion with another tanks from the Vickers 6-Ton (Mk.E) family like rusian T-26 and vickers tanks in another cauntrys service and as I saw wy have a mess with this.

Hallo Blazejos
So about 7TP armour.
At first the values (you can than add if this is correct)
turret front: 15mm
turret side: 15mm
turret rear: 15mm
hull front: 17mm
hull side: 17mm
hull rear: 13mm

In game we have this:
turret front: 2
turret side: 2
turret rear: 2
hull front: 2
hull side: 2
hull rear: 2

I think that this values are completely right. Why?
To set up armour values we need LOS thickness at first.
LOS for 7TP is very similar to real values except hull rear because bigger angle.

If we have LOS we can set up estimates of armour.
There are two possibilities how to do it.
The first variant:
LOS armour 5-14 mm as 1, 15-24mm as 2, 25-34 as 3, ...

The second variant:
LOS armour x-10 as 1, 11-20 as 2, 21-30 as 3, 31-40 as 4,...

I think that the first variant is better - we must take care also about how penetration of guns is created.

And example
I modified czechoslovak oob and I made there weaker armor for LT-34 and ST-39. That is because frontal armour of LT-34 is 15mm and side is 12mm so 2 for front and 1 for side.
ST-39 than has 32mm front and 20mm side so 3 and 2.
LT-35 and LT-38 has front 25mm and side 16/15mm so 3 and 2.

You must take in account that if 7TP tank will have more armour values than how to set up armour values for other tanks and how to set up penetrations of guns.

Regards
Pavel Novak
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old July 4th, 2006, 12:00 PM
blazejos's Avatar

blazejos blazejos is offline
First Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pila, North west Poland
Posts: 640
Thanks: 382
Thanked 241 Times in 166 Posts
blazejos is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Polish OOB

Yes you have right all depends how you scope is for how armour values. But why T-26 has better armour with 3 point on front so meaby 7TP armour scope is too small or T-26 has a too thick armour. This tanks were similar are from Vickers E 6-ton family

Let's see my suorce of T-26 armour http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/w...anks_light.htm

T-26 M1931 with two turents

hull front HF - 13mm
hull side HS - 13mm
hull rear HR - 13mm
turret all side TF and TS and TR - 13mm

how that's look in game Unit 222 in rusian OOB
HF - 2
HS - 2
HR - 1
turret all side TF and TS and TR - 2

T-26 M1933 with one turent very similar to 7TP

hull front HF - 15mm
hull side HS - 15mm
hull rear HR - 15mm
turret all side TF and TS and TR - 15mm

how that's look in game Unit 004 and 224 in rusian OOB
HF - 3
HS - 2
HR - 2
TF - 3
TS and TR - 2


T-26 M1939 with one turent

hull front HF - 15mm
hull side HS - 15mm
hull rear HR - 15mm
turret all side TF and TS and TR - 15mm

how that's look in game Unit 338 rusian OOB
HF - 3
HS - 2
HR - 2
TF - 3
TS and TR - 2
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 4th, 2006, 03:32 PM

PN79 PN79 is offline
Private
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 43
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
PN79 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Polish OOB

If it depends on me I will reduce armour on T-26
T-26 M1931 with two turents
HF - 2 (armour is inder some angle)
HS - 1
HR - 1
TF - 2 (armour is inder some angle)
TS and TR - 1

T-26 M1933 with one turent very similar to 7TP
HF,HS,HR - 2
TF,TS,TR - 2

T-26 M1939 with one turent
HF,HS,HR - 2 (angle of armour is not enough to value 3)
TF,TS,TR - 2 (angle of armour is not enough to value 3)

Probably someone another should make clear this.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old July 4th, 2006, 06:17 PM

Marek_Tucan Marek_Tucan is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Kladno, Czech Republic
Posts: 1,176
Thanks: 12
Thanked 49 Times in 44 Posts
Marek_Tucan is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Polish OOB

Let's add my values for T-26 while we're at it

T-26 model 1931
Hull 2 1 1
Turret 2 2 1

T-26 model 1933 to 39
Hull 2 2 2
Turret 2 2 2

T-26 model 1939E (nothing to do with the Polish OOB, though)
Hull 5 2 2
Turret 4 2 2
__________________
This post, as well as being an ambassador of death for the enemies of humanity, has a main message of peace and friendship.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old July 6th, 2006, 05:42 PM
blazejos's Avatar

blazejos blazejos is offline
First Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pila, North west Poland
Posts: 640
Thanks: 382
Thanked 241 Times in 166 Posts
blazejos is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Polish OOB

A very good comprasion of early war tanks included Armour

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...d_War_II_tanks
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2025, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.