Death scales/Gift of Natures Bounty

[Arker]

I know the turmoil lowers income, but it should lower it to a point then stabilise. Since I had good dominion spread at the beginning, most of my provinces were already showing turmoil from it before I conquered them. My income was going down every turn, however, and so was the population. One province next to my capital was down to 310 people...

[KissBlade]

Turmoil is by far the biggest income killer compared to any other scales.

[Ygorl]

For the record, scales of Death 1 would be 13% less income than Death 0 after 60 turns. Death 2 is 25% less, and Death 3 is 34% less.

[Arker]

Would it be correct to extrapolate that means about 240 turns to take income to absolute zero? If that's more or less correct it means that in a large map game where that many turns are to be expected, even death 1 is too much unless you're playing undead. Ermors themes can handle this of course, I haven't played the Ctis and Pangea undead themes enough to know if they can or not though.

I'm not sure if it's by percentage or an absolute value, but with death one and GoNB up, my lowest population province went from 320 to 310 population the next month. A rough guess would say 31 more turns to 0 pop, but that might be off depending on how it's calculated. Should have kept a tally for a few turns before I cast it to see how much it changed, but sadly didn't think of that until after. At any rate, GoNB isn't enough to reverse it, and even though it wasn't that far into the game, I was already noticing the provinces I had marked in mind for blood hunting later were swiftly falling under the 5000 mark.

[Ygorl]

No, it's a multiplicative effect. Each point of growth/death raises or lowers province population by 0.2% per month. Also, each point raises or lowers province income (which is directly derived from population, for most provinces) 2% per month.
So, the longer you go, the less you decrease in terms of absolute income.

As far as GoNB, I've never cast it, but I always assumed it moved your scales towards growth? In any case, give it a few turns to have an effect.

[quantum_mechani]

Ygorl said:
As far as GoNB, I've never cast it, but I always assumed it moved your scales towards growth? In any case, give it a few turns to have an effect.

Nature's Bounty doesn't effect growth scale- just multiplies income based on positive dominion candles in a province.

[Graeme Dice]

Arker said:
I know the turmoil lowers income, but it should lower it to a point then stabilise.

Not at all. Every point of order increases your income by 7%. Every point of turmoil decreases your income by 7%. This is a constant effect that depends solely on the current order/turmoil scale in a given province.

My income was going down every turn, however, and so was the population. One province next to my capital was down to 310 people...

Every level of the death scale reduces population by 0.2% per turn. That province likely only started with a few hundred people.

[Arker]

Graeme Dice said:
reases your income by 7%. Every point of turmoil decreases your income by 7%. This is a constant effect that depends solely on the current order/turmoil scale in a given province.

Thanks for the explanation. Trying to make sure I understand this correctly. Turmoil 2 causes income to drop 14% *every turn*? Not to a stable state 14% below what it would be otherwise? Is that what you're saying?

Every level of the death scale reduces population by 0.2% per turn. That province likely only started with a few hundred people.

That province started with several thousand actually (8k+, IIRC,) but it had a rather nasty event early on that knocked it down to about 1500. It was still going down 10 every turn two months after GoNB took effect. 320*.002=.64, it's a bit late for me to by doing math but that looks right? Rounded up to 1, I was still losing population an order of magnitude faster than that. I know at least one of those nasty globals Ermor had up increases turmoil, which now that I think about it had to be part of why my income was dropping so quickly. I don't remember anything in the game text about it increasing death as well, though, however it would certainly make sense for it to do that...

[Folket]

Did you not say that Ermor casted Burden of Time?

That is the source of your problems. Burden of time will kill all population quite quickly.

[Endoperez]

Folket said:
Did you not say that Ermor casted Burden of Time?

That is the source of your problems. Burden of time will kill all population quite quickly.

Good catch, Folket! It's probably a global of some kind that kills your population. Death scale has constant effect, but it's a slow process.

Arker - Turmoil has it's effect on constantly, and has the same effect on the same population whether it has affected that province for 1 turn or for 100.
Graeme Dice answered your question thinking of what would happen e.g. in your capital, where the scales work from the beginning. In there, the income is constantly lowered by 7% per Turmoil scale. However, your question was more in regards to conquered provinces where your dominion spreads - in those cases, the income drops from the 100% it starts from, goes down, and then stays constant.

As many people have said, any Turmoil is very, VERY bad - compared to Order 3! Of course, that's very bad. However, Death scale is compared to a neutral case, not to Growth 3. Most people who frequent these forums take Order 3 for all nations which need money, which only excludes Ashen Empire, Soul Gate and Carrion Woods. If you were to play in MP game against one of them, you'd lose because they'd have more money than you. In SP, it isn't that bad, because higher levels of AIs will have more money than you any way, and you'll have to rely on other things to destroy them. High-quality troops, perhaps better magical support, maybe assassinations or spies causing unrest, etc.