ME262 wrong guns?

[chuckfourth]

Hi Narwan
Heres the test,
The 7.5 bcannon set to HE pen of 17 and HE kill of 1. Shoot at 10 Kvs 2 planes for each hex and *4 for no of guns. I have a jeep a bren gun carrier and an infantry squad sharing each hex with the KV, no damage to infantry, no damage to jeeps 1 bren damaged but it may have been a target. 4 Kvs with one or 2 star damage 2 immobilised.
Now run the same test with HE pen of 0 and He kill of 0 and sabot pen of 17 and sabot range of 25 and again the bren the jeep and the infantry basicly untouched but the KV are pretty much all destroyed!
So HE pen of 17 seems very different to Sabot pen of 17. Would someone be so kind as to confirm this?
I would suggest that the guns in question (weapons 207 208 209 and 168/169) have their HE pen and HE kill set ot 0 and the correct sabot values added making them the tank busters they should be, because at the moment they are pretty useless. (probably any planes carrying these weapons should reside in class 243 "ground attack")
The only down side I can see is of course more work for the programmers, because there still needs to be the 1 HE round allocated to the plane so that it appears in the bombardment window. But even with this left as is the planes work much better with the sabot allocated.
So to address Andys concerns there is no "mass destruction" and the plane will fire the sabot round at armour.
Best regards Chuck.

[DRG]

There is NO difference between aircraft classed 44 or 243. 243 was added to allow OOB designers the luxury of splitting their aircraft if they so desired. Both classes do the same job.

Don

[DRG]

chuckfourth said:
<snip
I would suggest that the guns in question (weapons 207 208 209 and 168/169) have their HE pen and HE kill set ot 0 and the correct sabot values added making them the tank busters they should be,

You ran one test with one weapon and think you've got this all figured out but you don't. "Sabot" is only available to weapons used in weapon slot one so your ju-88 test worked just dandy becasue in that case that weapon is used in slot 1

Please look at this list

users of weapon ID 207 3.7cm BKannon:
120 - Ju 87G-1 Stuka : Slot 2 dates: 06/43-12/46
234 - Ju 88P-2 : Slot 1 dates: 09/43-12/46
234 - Ju 88P-2 : Slot 2 dates: 09/43-12/46

users of weapon ID 208 5cm Bord Kannon:
235 - Ju 88P-4 : Slot 1 dates: 09/43-12/46
902 - Me 410A-1/U-4 : Slot 1 dates: 09/43-12/45

users of weapon ID 209 7.5cm BKannon:
129 - Hs 129 B-3/Wa : Slot 3 dates: 05/44-12/46
233 - Ju 88P-1 : Slot 1 dates: 09/43-12/46

users of weapon ID 168 30mm MK-108:
122 - Bf 109G-2/R1 : Slot 3 dates: 03/43-12/46
124 - Me 262A-2a : Slot 1 dates: 10/44-12/46
124 - Me 262A-2a : Slot 2 dates: 10/44-12/46
237 - Fw 190F-8 : Slot 3 dates: 09/44-12/46
243 - Fw 190 D-12 : Slot 2 dates: 01/45-12/46
898 - Bf 110NF : Slot 3 dates: 01/41-12/45

users of weapon ID 169 30mm MK-101:
128 - Hs 129 B-1 : Slot 3 dates: 03/43-12/46

There are 12 different aircraft on that list of the weapons you wanted changed ( two aircraft use the same weapon in two different slots) . 5 use those weapons as first slot weapon and 7 do not so if anyone just trotted off and made that change you suggested nearly 60% of those aircraft would have useless guns. Totally and utterly USELESS guns. You should have tested that. You've had over 12 weeks since you posted that "test" and if your recommendations were followed any aircraft using those weapons in any slot other than weapon slot one is not even " firing plasticine" they are firing air becasue the game needs to see sabot ammo in the SABOT ammo slot to fire SABOT AMMO and there is no such ammo slot for weapons 2, 3 and 4.......is there ? So what would those guns be firing ??

NOW do you understand why we don't use SABOT ammo for aircraft or anything else except a main weapon ?

OK, what's "plan B" ??

Don