Leadership levels upped, I see?

[Gandalf Parker]

Boron said:

In games with QM or Arch it was almost a no-brainer.
They used death 3 basically always in vanilla Dom2 and still often in Dom2 CB.
And QM won almost all blitzes.

Somehow the usual Dom2 vanilla scales defaulted to magic 3 order 3 misfortune 3 death 3 sloth 3 heat preference +/- 1.

Only in longterm games growth scale was occasionally valuable, especially for blood nations. But there iirc Arch usually took death 3 nontheless and dominated with something else like mass vine ogres or van abuse or whatever .

You 3-player blitzes were small maps and fast games. I could see it being used then altho I think that if you know its coming that there would be a logical choice to combat it.

[Graeme Dice]

Gandalf Parker said:
You 3-player blitzes were small maps and fast games. I could see it being used then altho I think that if you know its coming that there would be a logical choice to combat it.

The logical choice to combat a player who has 120 extra design points from a death 3 scale is to take a death 3 scale yourself. You certainly wouldn't take growth 3, since that would put you at a 240 point disadvantage for no real gain.

[BigJMoney]

True. What's funny is how I never do this is SP, but only because I don't always enjoy winning a game as efficiently as possible; which is to rely on summoned armies. I can certianly see how, even in a long game, death 3 is choice because you should already have your gem income by the time your gold income begins to wane. Heck, for slow players like myself, Death 3 could be a real asset to force me to play a more efficient game.

=$=

[Boron]

BigJMoney said:
True. What's funny is how I never do this is SP, but only because I don't always enjoy winning a game as efficiently as possible; which is to rely on summoned armies. I can certianly see how, even in a long game, death 3 is choice because you should already have your gem income by the time your gold income begins to wane. Heck, for slow players like myself, Death 3 could be a real asset to force me to play a more efficient game.

=$=

Yeah in SP which i enjoy a lot too i never play effectively.

But in MP my cruel opponents force me to not play as sloppy as in SP .
I am still obsessed with my idea to win a SP game vs. impossible AIs with just using national troops and commanders. So far i have never succeeded at this challenge but always enjoy it to try it again . Death nations and underwater nations do not count as valid nations for this challenge .

[Gandalf Parker]

I would guess that another strategy would be a strong dominion wall, strong defense (jutenheim), and holding out until his tactics kill him off. Depending of course on which nation he is playing.

[alexti]

Boron said:
I am still obsessed with my idea to win a SP game vs. impossible AIs with just using national troops and commanders. So far i have never succeeded at this challenge but always enjoy it to try it again . Death nations and underwater nations do not count as valid nations for this challenge .

That sounds like an interesting challenge. By death nations do you mean Ermor or any nation that has national death mages? Do you allow battleship summoning (elementals,skeletons,false horrors etc)?

[alexti]

alexti said:

That sounds like an interesting challenge. By death nations do you mean Ermor or any nation that has national death mages? Do you allow battleship summoning (elementals,skeletons,false horrors etc)?

I've tried the game with the following restrictions:
- only national troops (and pretender can be used) and mercenaries can be used (no indy mages);
- no ritual summons;
- no creature generators (neither permanent, like devil generator nor battlefield ones such as living water, lifelong protection etc);
- no gem generators;

To my surprise I've won without much difficulty, which is probably because I've played Jotunheim. My plan was to use blessed woodsmen and later on use niefel jarls as mini-SC. Considering that research didn't look like a high priority I took drain-2. I've got monolith with E9W6S4 (dom 6) which left me with enough points for decent scales. Early on I wasn't buying mages at all - just woodsmen and jotun jarls to lead them. I had to wait a bit until I got enough woodsmen to keep a good line (to avoid being surrounded) before expanding, but then it went easy - I've steamrolled over indy and my AI neighbours (Man, Arco and Abysia). I only bought few mages to search for sites. After getting construction researched (mostly by pretender) I've bought some more mages and equipped them with skull mentors. I've tried to use Niefel Jarls as SCs, but it didn't work particularly well, they were only useful to take poorly defended provinces, so in the end I've conquered everybody mostly with woodsmen. Afterwards, I think it might be easier to play any other Jotunheim theme - I had virtually no mage support on the battlefield.

Though, I've played on small map without Ermor or water nations (with them things would be more difficult I think). I suspect this approach wouldn't be that successful (but perhaps still viable) on a large map, but I wanted to finish it before Dom3 anyway

This strategy will likely work with any other bless-efficient nation.

[DominionsFan]

alexti said:

I've tried the game with the following restrictions:
- only national troops (and pretender can be used) and mercenaries can be used (no indy mages);
- no ritual summons;
- no creature generators (neither permanent, like devil generator nor battlefield ones such as living water, lifelong protection etc);
- no gem generators;

To my surprise I've won without much difficulty, which is probably because I've played Jotunheim. My plan was to use blessed woodsmen and later on use niefel jarls as mini-SC. Considering that research didn't look like a high priority I took drain-2. I've got monolith with E9W6S4 (dom 6) which left me with enough points for decent scales. Early on I wasn't buying mages at all - just woodsmen and jotun jarls to lead them. I had to wait a bit until I got enough woodsmen to keep a good line (to avoid being surrounded) before expanding, but then it went easy - I've steamrolled over indy and my AI neighbours (Man, Arco and Abysia). I only bought few mages to search for sites. After getting construction researched (mostly by pretender) I've bought some more mages and equipped them with skull mentors. I've tried to use Niefel Jarls as SCs, but it didn't work particularly well, they were only useful to take poorly defended provinces, so in the end I've conquered everybody mostly with woodsmen. Afterwards, I think it might be easier to play any other Jotunheim theme - I had virtually no mage support on the battlefield.

Though, I've played on small map without Ermor or water nations (with them things would be more difficult I think). I suspect this approach wouldn't be that successful (but perhaps still viable) on a large map, but I wanted to finish it before Dom3 anyway

This strategy will likely work with any other bless-efficient nation.

Yes this is very possible on a small map, however on a large map with impossible AIs...I don't think that it would work. I might give it a try.

[DominionsFan]

Boron said:

Yeah in SP which i enjoy a lot too i never play effectively.

But in MP my cruel opponents force me to not play as sloppy as in SP .
I am still obsessed with my idea to win a SP game vs. impossible AIs with just using national troops and commanders. So far i have never succeeded at this challenge but always enjoy it to try it again . Death nations and underwater nations do not count as valid nations for this challenge .

I plan to make 2 total conversion mods. The first will be a basic fantasy based mod with dwarves, elves etc.

The second mod will be the same, except that all troops for the nations and their summons will be stronger, but they will cost the same mana/resource/gold. However 1 nation's troops won't be upgraded, and that will be the human player's nation. Imho it will be almost impossible to win against the AIs on the hardest diff. level with my upcoming settings in that TC mod.