Are we paying more for less?

[Leif_-]

Talleyrand said:
Niche is no excuse, people expect game prices to fall.

Some people expect the game price to fall, but as I've explained above, the economics means that it is an unreasoanble expectation for this particular case.

[Talleyrand]

I know, Leif, and I enjoyed reading your replies. I don't think it is unreasonable however to expect Shrapnel to lower the price of a game that has been out for a couple of years, even if there is no direct incentive for them to do that. People expect it to happen, and you in turn garner the sales of those customers who were on the fence and were not willing to pay full price for a game upon initial release. And as I said, I don't believe this game to be that much more a niche than many other notable strategy titles, whose prices have steadily fallen over the years.

Johan, I would pay 40 dollars for Dominions 3 at most plus shipping and probably 30 for Dominions 2, although I think 20 would be more reasonable for such an old game.

As a side note, please quit bringing up the manual when toting the price of this game. The manual is nothing more than a manual. Unless it has a strong piece of fiction inside that lays out the history of the world and its main characters that brings me a keen sense of entertainment, it does not impress me one bit how big it is. I do although appreciate the effort involved in its creation. But I don't pay extra for strategy guides (even for a game like Disgaea 2 lol) and I will not pay extra for a bigger manual, which is basically one way a lot of you are justifying the higher price.

[PhilD]

Talleyrand said:
Niche is no excuse, people expect game prices to fall.

So because people expect the price to fall, the price should fall?

Shrapnel aren't trying to conquer the PC gaming world and make every PC gamer buy their products, you see. Most potential PC game buyers certainly do expect the price of a game to drop after a few months - but those same "most" would not buy a game like Dom2 anyway, because the graphics are so primitive, and the box isn't shiny enough (I mean, there is NO box), and there are no voices lines, and so on.

The target audience is different, and it seems that Shrapnel decided that their targeted audience is mostly composed of players who are willing to pay a premium price for what they consider to be a good game - even though most other players would not consider it so, and would not even buy it at maybe $10. Apparently, their sales figure show they were not too deeply wrong. At least from here, I'm happy with the price.

Basically, the price tag has little influence on sales of games like Dominions, so there is little reason for the price to drop after a few weeks or months.

[Gandalf Parker]

Talleyrand said:
As much as I want to support Illwinter and Shrapnel, I can't bring myself to pay a premium for their products, and in that I think we both lose. Am I in the minority? Well that is the million dollar question, isn't it?

You do understand that asking that in the Dominions forum makes it likely that most people will not agree with you?

But even in the usenet strategy forums I had the same conversation. The person there also was not able to swing a majority.

I really do understand your viewpoint. As a player viewpoint I think its valid. But trying to sound like a nice guy talking to the publisher on a peer level, I dont really think so. It has a chance for some gains but I still feel it would be a risky thing for Shrapnel to try with this version of Dominions. This is a major release both for Illwinter and for Shrapnel. Gambling with pricing might not be a very responsible thing for them to do right now.

I wish I was better at math to put this in a formula but I now that you are talking about cutting their profits probably more than half (at least). And I know that it would take twice as many new buyers to make up that difference, much less make a gain above that to make it worthwhile.

[Neophyte]

Talleyrand - You said that the manual is just a manual. Based on a small sampling (one scanned image, my preorder shipped today and obviously is not in my twitching hands) it seems to me that the manual is less of a "push these buttons, make game work" manual typical of games these days, but more of reference guide to the features (features = units, spells etc in this context) more similar to a programming language reference guide or an extremely well written after market strategy game guide.

You have discussed production value. I am in the initial planning stages of a small business. One of the most important things I am trying to determine is what my minimum sales volume needs to be to not lose money (I want to start very small and continue to remain employed full-time). This very planning makes me poignantly aware that Shrapnel, having much smaller sales volumes than someone like Atari, or even Atari games sold just at Wal-Mart, must do a similar analysis, only they need to make money beyond their cost of production in order to pay their employees.

Based on my perception of the tone of the forum posts of Shrapnel staff, it seems that they are surprised at the level of success that Dom3 is garnering for them. I agree with the poster who mentioned that from an economic stand point this means that the game is perhaps underpriced.

Lastly, just from playing Dom2 (which I caught on sale at $32.95 - Shrapnel does periodically reduce prices) I would say that the replay value is definately in the top 5 games that I own. In making this assessment I am combining price per unit time spent playing the game as well as the intangible of personal sense of enjoyment per unit time spent playing the game.

Thank's for letting me share my thoughts regarding this thread.

[Bloodstar2]

Gandalf Parker said:

You do understand that asking that in the Dominions forum makes it likely that most people will not agree with you?

But even in the usenet strategy forums I had the same conversation. The person there also was not able to swing a majority.

I really do understand your viewpoint. As a player viewpoint I think its valid. But trying to sound like a nice guy talking to the publisher on a peer level, I dont really think so. It has a chance for some gains but I still feel it would be a risky thing for Shrapnel to try with this version of Dominions. This is a major release both for Illwinter and for Shrapnel. Gambling with pricing might not be a very responsible thing for them to do right now.

I wish I was better at math to put this in a formula but I now that you are talking about cutting their profits probably more than half (at least). And I know that it would take twice as many new buyers to make up that difference, much less make a gain above that to make it worthwhile.

Well, I knew that you are biased and not very bright, but you tend to be a liar as well.

I didn't wanted to swing a majority on Usenet. I just BTW. bought the game.

But, I reserve my right to say a few words ABOUT THE PRICE.

PRICE IS SET TOO HIGH. PERIOD. All arguments that I have read are in vain.

It is clear fact that Shrapnel was carried away a little bit.

I bought Dominion 2 at 50 US$ and 3 $ postage to Europe. Now is 55 $ and 9.35 US$ postage... great

Now, if someone wants to buy me, a regular customer, go ahead....

But, I will say few words about the price. 55$ is too high price, argument that you will spend 1000 hours playing it blah, you will spend 1000 hours playing Heroes 5 as well. Maybe some argument is there about size of the manual (I still wait for the game to arrive).

Argument that game will sell less and crying how this is niche game is of no interest to us, regular paying customers! Mind you, I deeply believe that this game should be priced at 40 US$-45$ top. 50$ is also too high, and 55$ way too much.

Matrix Games is also inflating their games like TOAW 3 for 40 US$, a almost same game from 2000. AD. and full of bugs (COW is better).

So, I give Shrapnel THUMBS DOWN on setting this game and also to developer also THUMBS DOWN because they should be aware that price is set too high.

You just got BIG reputation down in my eyes. Yes, I bought the game but next time I won't if this greedy politics at Shrapnel will continue.

Thank you for listening.


Mario

[DominionsFan]

Actually I've seen many people arguing about the price.
My opinion is this:

- Dominions 2 was the best turn based strategy, what was ever created. This is not just a subjective opinion. Everyone who took a look at the game was like "wow! fantastic gameplay!" I remember, that when I introduced this game to my mates here, they were like "Eh? What is this? Look at this graphics!" Then I invited them to take a look at the game on my comp. They loved it. After that point they didn't care about graphics. The gameplay and the complexity of the game sucked them in. There are so many different strategies available, that the game never became boring for us.
Dominions 3. will have many new additions. Also don't forget that the developer support is excellent. Basically they try to add everything what is possible. They care what the fans are saying.

- The price might be high. Now this is a bit subjective thing if you ask me. 60$...seriously this is nothing for a game like this. I was paying many hundreds of dollars for paint programs. Dominions is a special game for hardcore strategy fans. If you don't want to pay 60$ for the best turn based strategy game..what can I say? It's a big fault.
I can understand that some people or families don't have too much money [I think B0rsuk mentioned that he earns 330$/month for example, and that is really like nothing], but somehow everyone can spare 60$ I guess, to buy this awesome game.
What can you buy for 60$? You can't even buy a mediocre quality bottle of whiskey.