Example unit graphics from our mod

[DominionsFan]

Leif, please take a look at the Civ 3. units. Huge number of those used up miniatures as models, and their photos also for civilopedia entries.
I haven't read any restrictions about using up these photos, and I've checked it everywhere, trust me.

[Leif_-]

DominionsFan said:
Leif, please take a look at the Civ 3. units. Huge number of those used up miniatures as models, and their photos also for civilopedia entries.

Did you consider the possibility that Firaxis paid for the use of the miniatures' likeness?

[DominionsFan]

Leif_- said:

Did you consider the possibility that Firaxis paid for the use of the miniatures' likeness?

Eh no. All of those units were made by players, Firaxis has nothing to do with it.
Like I said, I checked out these things before I decided to use miniature photos, there isn't any copyright rules for it. If you want, you can check it out also.

If you think a bit, this question isn't making any sense at all.
You can buy miniatures, paint them, and share the photo about them anytime. It is always worked like this.

[Leif_-]

DominionsFan said:
Eh no. All of those units were made by players, Firaxis has nothing to do with it.

Oh, you were referring to player-made mods for Civ 3. Well, then the case is the same as for your Dominions 3 mod: they're probably in violation of copyright. Just because they haven't been taken to court for it doesn't mean that they're legal.

Like I said, I checked out these things before I decided to use miniature photos, there isn't any copyright rules for it. If you want, you can check it out also.

Miniatures and photos of miniatures are covered by the same copyright laws as everything else, and copyright law is reknown for being finicky and specialised. As I said earlier, I am not a lawyer, but my lay man's opinion is that your use of the miniatures does not fall under the aegis of fair use and is a copyright violation.

If you think a bit, this quetion isn't making any sense at all.
You can buy miniatures, paint them, and share the photo about them anytime. It is always worked like this.

There is a difference between sharing a photo of a miniature you've painted and using the miniature as basis for the graphics in a computer game. The first will almost always be fair use and can not really be said to be a derivate work, while the latter might not be fair use and might very well be considered as a derivative work.

[DominionsFan]

Well Leif if you think so, please show me some official words about it. You won't be able to, because there isn't any.
You are also wrong in a point. If Illwinter would use up the photos about miniatures, that might be wrong. [I'm not sure about it at all] However modders never make any profit from adding miniature photos to various game mods. That is not illegal. Like I said, there are countless examples, that miniature photos were used up in player made mods for various games, and no one had any problems with it ever.
Secondly, many experienced photoshoppers could draw an unit like this about a miniature, it would just take much more time then using up an existing photo. I could do it even. What would you say then? Illegal?
Anyways there is no point to argue over this, since this is certainly not illegal, trust me.

[Leif_-]

DominionsFan said:
Well Leif if you think so, please show me some official words about it. You won't be able to, because there isn't any.

Do I have an authoriative source stating that "using photos of painted miniatures in a game mod is a violation of copyright"? Of course not. For one thing the situation is so narrow that there's not likely to be any case law on it. This is "below the radar" so to speak. Secondly, the statement is too general to make an absolute verdict about it -- such use may or may not be a violation depending on the particulars of the case.

However, there are several good, authoriative sources on copyright law out there. Most deal with the US copyright law and while the specifics might not apply to where you live, copyright law has been pretty much harmonised throughout most of the Western world and the general concepts are mostly the same.

If you want to read up on fair use you can start with the Wikipedia article which has a list of other resources at the bottom.

You might look at this checklist from Purdue universite and see how many points you have favouring that your use is fair and how many points you have opposing that. You might be surprised.

You are also wrong in a point. If Illwinter would use up the photos about miniatures, that might be wrong. [I'm not sure about it at all] However modders never make any profit from adding miniature photos to various game mods. That is not illegal.

Non-commercial use (or more specifically, non-for-profit use) is not excused from copyright. Whether the use is commercial or not is taken into consideration when judging if it's fair use or not, but that the use is found to be non-commercial is not sufficent to deem it fair use.

Like I said, there are countless examples, that miniature photos were used up in player made mods for various games, and no one had any problems with it ever.

And prior to Grand Upright v. Warner in 1991 there were countless examples of musicians using samples from other artists' copyrighted works. As I said above, just because it has not been taken to court (yet) does not mean it is legal.

Secondly, many experienced photoshoppers could draw an unit like this about a miniature, it would just take much more time then using up an existing photo. I could do it even. What would you say then? Illegal?

Yes. It doesn't matter wheter you photograph, Xerox, trace or draw free hand, you're still copying. The question isn't the method you've used to create your own work but wheter a) your use of the orignal copyrighted material is fair use and b) your work can be considered derivative.

Anyways there is no point to argue over this, since this is certainly not illegal, trust me.

I see no reason to trust you on this. My own understanding of copyright law suggests you're wrong, you do not appear as an authority on the subject and much of your argumentation in this discussion is flawed.

However, I agree that there seems no point in continuing to argue over this, as it seems unlikely that either of us will be conviced by the other's arguments.

[DominionsFan]

Leif, that is your subjective opinion. I accept it as an opinion, nothing more. My own understanding is that you are very wrong in this question. This has nothing to do with copyright laws.