Yomi - Oni Kings analysis. Developers please read

[Fate]

I like the idea of retreating ghosts. Maybe a new "orderly route" attribute that causes them to retreat to a province containing a commander who can lead them (or to retreat normally if none is available).

[Agrajag]

Better yet, make it so that when retreating by command (like fire and flee, or a commander scripted to retreate) everyone automatically chooses the province they attacked from as their choice of flight route (and if it is occupied - then they scatter), and make it so the ghosts retreate by commad.

[Corwin]

Esben Mose Hansen said:
After reading the analysis, I thought I'd try these Yomi in Early Era. I must admit, I kind of like them.

......

Yes, it's a good strategy, and quite similar to what I did in my 3 games with Oni. In SP Oni are fine, but that's because AI doesn't understand how to counter them with priests, or how to deal with SCs. The problem with Oni is in MP.

Anopther thing for Oni in SP btw - with invulnerability/sould vortex, armor of dispacement, and bracers of protection plus luck, Dai Oni can kill pretty uch any AI army, unless it has mages with nasty spells, without suffering any loses. I;ve destroed nations almost as powerful as my (on very large map) in 3 turns during the late game, by doing "Market Garden" with flying Dai Oni on all uncastled provinces, and than blocking all castles on turn2 with same Dai Oni-s.

Anyway, I am glad that my little analysis has motivate you to play Oni Kings though.

[Esben Mose Hansen]

Does lots of cheap mages spamming skeletons help with the banning? Also, I suppose you could dilute the small archers with bandits/indys to reduce the effectiveness of the banishment there. You'd still need some shock troops... maybe summons?

Anyway, I have trouble playing on the medium maps with just 4 normal AI's... too often, they overrun me before I can establish a defense So I'll sure get a rough treatment in human MP

[Cainehill]

Boron said:
But you are nontheless correct i think. The size of the Ku-Oni is more often a problem than an advantage because of other spells.

Mainly Bladewind and Magma eruption devastate the poor Ku-Oni really well.

But Bladewind (and Rain of Stones) shouldn't have much of an effect on the ethereal form, at least if the manual is correct : both spells damage is Mundane, meaning that it isn't considered magical for purposes of hitting.

But one thing I really dislike is that it seems that Yomi/Shinumaya have national spells that they simply can't use via their national mages. (Even LE Jomon has a very difficult time using some of them, considering that Contact Dai Tengu is A2E1, meaning that essentially 1 in 25 Master Shugenja can cast it.) Not only that, Shinuyama having _no_ air mages and no air income means that even with a pretender setup for casting it, it's extremely difficult for them to come up with the air gems to cast it (since the only one who can finding air sites would be the pretender, who probably starts slumbering or imprisoned).

Shades of the one Marignon theme in Dom2 being absolutely unable to use their starting national spells.

[Archonsod]

In my experience so far banishment isn't a problem from the AI (it usually wastes about 3 turns blessing and buffing before it even gets around to trying banishment). Obviously it would be slightly more dangerous with a player scripting specifically for it, but one thing Yomi has which Ermor doesn't is the ability to switch to non-demonic troops (rendering those armies of priests pretty useless).
The main danger I've found from the AI is resistant or immune to fire units, though that's probably down to my propensity to fireworks . That thrown fire might not be accurate, but the old saying "everything counts in large amounts" holds true here (especially when combined with the poison spit). You can back this up with bladewinds or similar and crush entire armies before they can even close.

[Ming]

This thread is nearly 2 years old. Does it mean that Yomi is in for an imminent upgrade?

I really like KO's idea of reducing costs and having the ghosts flee the battlefield. Not only would this fit the description of "near immortal" better, but it would allow players to try and come up with innovative strategies and make Yomi play very differently than other nations. I think this would add a new twist to EA Dom as other players would need to adjust when playing Yomi.

The cost reduction would still need to be substantial though. FWIW I could think of interesting possibilities if they are reduced to the following:

Ko-oni: 6 gold and the summoned version (MA) would be 10 for 5 gems.
Ao-oni: 16 gold
Aka-oni: 20 gold
Oni: 30 gold
Kuro-oni: 40 gold

At these prices they might be too hot for the AI to handle, but a human player will adjust and concentrate on banishing them rather than engaging in a fair fight.

[sector24]

webuser: Ming, thread necromancer
sternest: I'm the grand necromancer

What a great anagram! You can replace the word necromancer with any word. Ming, thread monkey? Ming, thread killer? The possibilities are endless, you lucky thread ninjapirateoctopus.

[quantum_mechani]

Ming said:

Ko-oni: 6 gold and the summoned version (MA) would be 10 for 5 gems.
Ao-oni: 16 gold
Aka-oni: 20 gold
Oni: 30 gold
Kuro-oni: 40 gold

These are similar to the CB prices.

[MaxWilson]

I gave Onis furs, better precision, and lower morale in ghost form. So far Yomi holds up pretty well against other nations in my games. Furs are the most important part, because it means their Protection is non-pathetic vs. arrows, Wolf Tribe Warriors, etc.

-Max