Balance on small maps

[Ygorl]

On first thought, I *really* like the idea of a sleeping or imprisoned pretender not granting bless effects... It makes sense thematically, and seems like it would be good for game balance - you might even be able to boost the points granted for sleeping or imprisonment a bit, if you did this. I also agree with others that for a small map (i.e. a short game) easy research makes a lot of sense. You're still unlikely to see a lot of level 9 spells, but it opens up a lot more of the research map.

[KissBlade]

Totally agree with Arralen, it has been agreed by the vast majority of the dom channel frequenters that bless effects are a bit too strong at the moment and the idea of sleeping/imprisoned not granting blesses is interesting. Though might call for a bit of rebalancing of some nations that seems fine with an uber bless. S&A's W5e's are devastating with a f9/w9 bless but balanced by the fact that they are relatively fragile and capital only. Van's on the other hand...

[Daynarr]

Actually I like idea that dormant/imprisoned pretenders give no bless effect until they wake up. It would balance things nicely.

[Gandalf Parker]

I agree. It seems logical, and fixes what appears to be a problem.

There would still be other reasons to take dormant but to use it for bless means you need to be banking on a long game

[Ballbarian]

It would certainly make the impending awakening of dormant or imprisoned gods feel more ominous.

[Cainehill]

Or, mmm, dormant pretenders giving only the minimum bless for each path until awake? It seems harsh to totally negate blessings, but if it takes 1 or 3 years for the full uber-bless to take effect, F9/W9/etc don't help with rushes, while still leaving moderate setups alone.

Going further : dormant (1 year) could give minimal bless for each bless path, while imprisoned gives none until awake, which would help balance wise, and also be thematic. A sleeping god's influence seeps through but not at full strength, while imprisoned pretenders have their influence caged until they escape.

[alexti]

I think that idea of dormant/imprisoned pretenders not giving bless sounds better and better. If dormant pretender awakes at turn 13, it still in time to benefit from sacred blessed troops while giving time other strategies to prepare. So dormant pretender will still make sense with blessing strategies. Of course dormant/imprisoned pretenders are useful in other cases too. Rainbow mage is probably practical dormant, if one takes a pretender to cover missing magic or to cast big spells later, imprisoned pretender look attractive. SC pretender can also be dormant while the required spells and items are being prepared.

So it seems, that there would be plenty of options and everything would have some use if non-active pretenders wouldn't provide blessing effects. Or if they were providing only minimal effects as it was suggested.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Gandalf Parker said:
I agree. It seems logical, and fixes what appears to be a problem.

There would still be other reasons to take dormant but to use it for bless means you need to be banking on a long game

I fail to see how dormant/imprisoned pretenders not resulting in bless effects is in any way "logical" in the Dominions game world.

It has been repeated time and again that the bless effects arise from the people's faith in their pretender and his divine attributes as directed towards those considered sacred in society, specifically, it is not an effect that is granted by the pretender to his people. This is most commonly trotted forward every time it is explained why the pretender does not count as sacred and, in fact, has no way to get the blessing effect - and it is manifest throughout the game design: your pretender can be feebleminded, a gibbering madman, or even dead - it does not affect the effects caused by people's beliefs in his divine attributes as carefully nurtured by your priesthood.

The ONLY thing that an alive and present pretender grants a nation is an increase in belief in the province he is present in and the ability to let the pretender physically interact with the world.

There is nothing "logical", in the Dominions world, about blessings not being present when pretenders are dormant or imprisoned or dead, for that matter. Such a tie-in would require a substantial change to a number of game mechanics and make the pretender a much, much, more important game-piece on the board than he is already, where it is optional in the pretender design phase whether he is to be important on the board - or important as a remote aspect to be venerated.

It looks much more like a case of a few nations having incredibly powerful sacred troops (we knew that already) which results in a power disparity in certain specific game setups (by no means in all game setups). Solving that isn't best done by changing the basics of blessing design which affects all setups - but by playing with other setups or to enforce house rules.

[Sandman]

One thing which contributes to the unstoppable dual-bless is the proliferation of fortified cities as the starting fort. That 50 admin goes a long way to making sloth manageable and boosting the player's gold supply.

I'll stick my neck out and say that in the Early Era, fortified cities should be extremely rare, if not absent altogether. 10, 20 and 30 admin castles should be the norm. All those cities are anti-thematic for the tribal Early Era nations, anyway.