.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Raging Tiger- Save $9.00
winSPMBT: Main Battle Tank- Save $5.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > Illwinter Game Design > Dominions 3: The Awakening

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old October 23rd, 2006, 04:01 AM
KissBlade's Avatar

KissBlade KissBlade is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,055
Thanks: 4
Thanked 29 Times in 13 Posts
KissBlade is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balance on small maps

Awaken really doesn't hurt too much of most of the imbalanced bless strategies. If anything it hurts the nations that can make an effective uber bless without teetering in the imbalanced range.

The REAL tweaking needs to happen around the order/magic/luck area ...
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old October 23rd, 2006, 10:17 AM
WraithLord's Avatar

WraithLord WraithLord is offline
General
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Posts: 3,465
Thanks: 511
Thanked 162 Times in 86 Posts
WraithLord is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balance on small maps

There's a second thread running about the bless balance. In this thread Twan has made a suggestion I really like - why not give holy units different costs according to their strength. vanhere for example can have a holy cost of two which well reduce their number by 50%.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old October 23rd, 2006, 10:34 AM
Endoperez's Avatar

Endoperez Endoperez is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Eastern Finland
Posts: 7,110
Thanks: 145
Thanked 153 Times in 101 Posts
Endoperez is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balance on small maps

"I am holier than thou"?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old October 23rd, 2006, 10:54 AM
Nerfix's Avatar

Nerfix Nerfix is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hyvinkää, Finland
Posts: 2,703
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Nerfix is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balance on small maps

Yeah, I'd imagine that KotC's are more revered than Flagellants. For example.
__________________

"Boobs are OK. Just not for Nerfix [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Smile.gif[/img] ."
- Kristoffer O.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old October 23rd, 2006, 11:13 AM
Agrajag's Avatar

Agrajag Agrajag is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Israel
Posts: 1,449
Thanks: 4
Thanked 8 Times in 2 Posts
Agrajag is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balance on small maps

Quote:
WraithLord said:
There's a second thread running about the bless balance. In this thread Twan has made a suggestion I really like - why not give holy units different costs according to their strength. vanhere for example can have a holy cost of two which well reduce their number by 50%.
The only problem I see with that is that currently holy is too small an integer to use with different costs, if perhaps you would have dominion*10 holy points of recruitment and most sacred would cost 10 points, then you could perhaps differentiate the different sacreds a bit more.
__________________
I'm in the IDF. (So any new reply by me is a very rare event.)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old October 23rd, 2006, 12:23 PM
JaydedOne's Avatar

JaydedOne JaydedOne is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 488
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
JaydedOne is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balance on small maps

Granted, we're talking balance on "small maps" which indicates short/non-blitz game, but the Death scale is hardly irrelevant in the longer-term picture.

That said, I agree that I'd probably jack up Death scale and many of the other bad scales in order to get a quick kill victory.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old October 24th, 2006, 02:28 AM

Zen Zen is offline
First Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 753
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Zen is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balance on small maps

I would say:

Bless strategies *should* work. But perhaps not as well as they do right now. Also there is no effective 10 turn counter to the initial bless rushes, whereas this doesn't specifically turn the entire game into a game of blessings, it does however allow heavy sacred nations an alternative to standard groundpounder/archer troops.

However, it does create a very real balance issue especially in the EA, but not limited to it, and due to the nature of magic in the Dom3 world.

Reasoning: Magic is now weaker than it was in Dom2, so solutions to such problems like turn 8 quickness/flaming weapon (or just quickness or flaming weapons is often enough) are few and far between. Especially with nations that are lopsidedly designed.

Also this doesn't account for it's psychological impact on nation design (you have to have a plan if your a near a rusher) if your nation has no viable alternative to stop or hold steady against such a strategy, you can only trust to luck to save you from being in a 3 province rush.

A good example of this is EA Arco. While the nation has it's strengths, it's fun, and a different style of play, you will not be able to handle Mictlan, Ermor, Vanheim, Helheim, Sauromatia and to a lesser extent: Pangaea and Kailisa if they play a heavy blessing strategy.

My feeling in this particular case is that that most of the nations who benefit most from the blessings have cheap medium/heavy cavalry whose size limits the use of trample. Which is a half-strength of the EA Arco theme.

However, EA Arco's problems are not just their own, but they span different parts of the game and troop/pretender usage in a competitive enviroment (one where you have to be prepared for some heavy bless strategy).

Back to the heart of the matter: While this is true with any game, most have alternatives or at least ways of handling such early game strength. While Dragons and Monsters can give you an early game province lead, when it comes to fighting sacreds with powerful blessing, the swarm has now rendered early half-SC's and incompletely equipped/poor slot pretenders very inneffective to use as a counter.

My own personal feelings is this isn't just one factor but many including:

Dormant/Imprisoned bless mechanic (2 outta 3 ain't bad! Blessing/Scales or Pretender/Blessing) Hello Dragons!

Order Scale overeffectiveness (1 Scale can get you 240 points with minimum early or midgame impact, thanks!) Gold is King.

Lesser spells imbalanced in terms of new combat/troop effectiveness (see Water Path, Fire Darts, etc - so that even lesser mages [with 1 path or 2 in different paths] can't effectively kill/weaken/synergize to cost the opponent their weight in gold, so you are stuck with researchers or last ditch use)

Invididual sacred units being hyper cost effective while the nation sees no real weakness for it (See Sauromatia, *heim's)

Same ol' problems (Raise Skeletons, Blade Wind, Bad efficency on Magical Trinkets/Lesser items, Spell AI is a poor team player, Gem standard on Summons is way off (See Drakes and Vine Ogre arguments), Ease of Bootstrapping non-nation/pretender paths, Superpowerful Globals and their counterpart the "Man I spent 60 gems on this?"

All in all, balance is fun to discuss, harder to impelement. This is probably why IW has taken such a positive stance on Modding

3.5 cents
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2025, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.