Conceptual Balance (Discussion)

FrankTrollman · #1 October 27th, 2006, 06:05 PM

I have mixed feelings about your Dom2 balance mod. We feel the same about many units, and differ sharply on others. However I think this is a good discussion to have.

Upon entering the game one is presented with Gods. So let's talk about them first:

Drakaina She's a Titan, and she costs 75 with just 2 picks. That's pretty standard territory - but she only has a Dominion of 1. That seems like a bug, because other creatures in that tax bracket (Lord of Fertility, Earth Mother, Son of Niefel) have a Dominon of 2 or 3.

Lord of War Where to start? He's worse than a Cyclops in every meaningful way and the cost savings isn't even there with an Earth Magic of 6+. He isn't even available to positions that don't get a Cyclops. He's just a crap god. He should have a Dominion of 4 or more magic or anything to make him less of a loser.

Titan (Female) She' just not... good. She doesn't do anything and has less magic than a Lady of Fortune who does. You seem to be paying real magic for an Owl, and we know that aint right. She should get better magic in one path or take on a third path. Something. Anything.

And while we're on the subject of those 2 picks 75 cost titans, what is up with them anyway? The cost savings for having a high initial pick in something are really big. Buying a 9 in a path for a god with a 50 pathcost is discounted by 114 points by having a 1 in the path to start with, discounted by 178 for having a 2 to start, and discounted by 234 for starting with a 3.

What does that mean? It means that having a 1 in two paths actually saves you less points than having a 3 in one path if you intend to purchase both up to 9. Getting bonus protection and berserking is cheaper on a Cyclops than it is on an Earth Mother. That means that the characters with 3 in one path (Solar Disc, Cyclops, Prince of Death, Lord of the Sky, etc.) are much better than the guys with 2 picks in one path and one pick in another (Titan, Mother of Serpents, Daughter of the Dawn).

A better split for pretenders like that would be to give them 2 picks in two categories. They'd be meaningfully encouraged to focus on the two categories of magic that they come with. A 2 Nature/2 Death Mother of Serpents would be worth considering to a degree that she really isn't now.

-Frank

dirtywick · #2 October 27th, 2006, 06:14 PM

Hi Zen, we've never spoke so I thought I'd tell you that I liked the mod you made for Dom 2.

I think either Ubas or Bakemono Sorcerors should get at least a 10% chance for an Air pick so Shinuyama can make use of their sacreds a little more effectively. Or at least the little priest guys should get a 100% chance so you can actually find some air sites.

Nerfix · #3 October 27th, 2006, 06:15 PM

Lord of War is economic for Marverni IMO. But it isn't that great on stats, magic etc etc.

Also, one might consider to take a look into Risen Oracle's downright obscene HP.

Also, in EA Vanheim/Helheim are overpowered with their easy to acces to lots of different troops with Glamour.

Morkilus · #4 October 27th, 2006, 06:27 PM

I'd like to see a revisit of the Dom2 CB idea of lesser summons showing up sooner on the resource tree. Also, perhaps archers should be more expensive than infantry (in gold, not resources). After all, it takes more skill to fire an arrow than to run around in armor and get hit with arrows. I often find myself only hiring archers after I get a couple good tanks to protect them, and this just doesn't feel right.

FrankTrollman · #5 October 27th, 2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Lord of War is economic for Marverni IMO. But it isn't that great on stats, magic etc etc.

If your Earth wants to be 6+, a Cyclops costs less points.

If your Fire wants to be 4+ (or 3 with a Dominion of 4+), a Forge Lord is cheaper.

If your Nature wants to be 2+ and you want a Dominion of 4+, a Lord of he Forest is cheaper.

All three of those titans have better stats than the Lord of War and some have better abilities as well. If you weren't interested in stats, then a Great Enchantress is chepaer for almost any set of magical picks and generate magical income.

I have no idea what Maverni could be doing that would involve a Lord of War being economical for anything. It's just a bad god.

-Frank

FrankTrollman · #6 October 27th, 2006, 06:35 PM

Water Magic:

I find Water Mages to be annoyingly useless under water early in the game.

Solution: Why not have Water Strike available at Evocation 0? The indeps are using it from the start of the game, why shouldn't player armies do so as well?

-Frank

Nerfix · #7 October 27th, 2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

FrankTrollman said:
Water Magic:

I find Water Mages to be annoyingly useless under water early in the game.

Solution: Why not have Water Strike available at Evocation 0? The indeps are using it from the start of the game, why shouldn't player armies do so as well?

-Frank

Also, move Boil to...like Alteration 2 or 3 and make it Fire 2 Water 1 or perhaps Water 2/3 Fire 1. An underwater only combat spell that has awkward paths and appears at Alteration 6? No thanks.

FrankTrollman · #8 October 27th, 2006, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Um, no. Lord of War is 75 points cheaper than Forge Lord or Cyclops. At least the last time I checked. =|

It sure is. However, a Forge Lord has an extra point of dominion and a point of Fire Magic. If you have a Fire Magic of 3, that costs your Forge Lord 24 points and your Lord of War 98 points. If you have a dominion of 4 it costs your Forge Lord 7 points and your Lord of War 21 points.

So that's 156 points of Forge Lord and 169 points of Lord of War.

And if the Lord of War gets anything else, the Forge Lord can get it for the same price or less.

It's cut and dried. The Lord of War is crap.

-Frank

UninspiredName · #9 October 27th, 2006, 08:51 PM

I'll second the Vampire Queen and Corpse Eater being boosted, as well as making the seniors take longer to die. Also perhaps have Old Age work by the percentage of the 'in his prime' time period, due to the also-aforementioned '51(50)/1001(1000) issue. Fire boosting aging would probably be much less of a problem itself if aging worked reasonably.

Seduction also feels like it doesn't work nearly often enough. I could swear it's literally impossible to seduce an enemy with the Oriad, though I haven't gotten the chance to try with Succubus. Some even consider it a glitch. Perhaps also add a way for such characters to improve their seduction ability.

EDIT: Also, not sure if this applies, but I could swear the AI will always go for you first before fighting other AIs. Doesn't really make sense.

Nerfix · #10 October 28th, 2006, 03:36 AM

Quote:

FrankTrollman said:

Quote:

Um, no. Lord of War is 75 points cheaper than Forge Lord or Cyclops. At least the last time I checked. =|

It sure is. However, a Forge Lord has an extra point of dominion and a point of Fire Magic. If you have a Fire Magic of 3, that costs your Forge Lord 24 points and your Lord of War 98 points. If you have a dominion of 4 it costs your Forge Lord 7 points and your Lord of War 21 points.

So that's 156 points of Forge Lord and 169 points of Lord of War.

And if the Lord of War gets anything else, the Forge Lord can get it for the same price or less.

It's cut and dried. The Lord of War is crap.

-Frank

Why would I want Fire magic? All that Marverni needs is an E4 bless for the druids and good scales the I don't think any pretender does it cheaper to Lord of War.