Conceptual Balance (Discussion)

Nerfix · #1 October 27th, 2006, 06:15 PM

Lord of War is economic for Marverni IMO. But it isn't that great on stats, magic etc etc.

Also, one might consider to take a look into Risen Oracle's downright obscene HP.

Also, in EA Vanheim/Helheim are overpowered with their easy to acces to lots of different troops with Glamour.

Morkilus · #2 October 27th, 2006, 06:27 PM

I'd like to see a revisit of the Dom2 CB idea of lesser summons showing up sooner on the resource tree. Also, perhaps archers should be more expensive than infantry (in gold, not resources). After all, it takes more skill to fire an arrow than to run around in armor and get hit with arrows. I often find myself only hiring archers after I get a couple good tanks to protect them, and this just doesn't feel right.

FrankTrollman · #3 October 27th, 2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Lord of War is economic for Marverni IMO. But it isn't that great on stats, magic etc etc.

If your Earth wants to be 6+, a Cyclops costs less points.

If your Fire wants to be 4+ (or 3 with a Dominion of 4+), a Forge Lord is cheaper.

If your Nature wants to be 2+ and you want a Dominion of 4+, a Lord of he Forest is cheaper.

All three of those titans have better stats than the Lord of War and some have better abilities as well. If you weren't interested in stats, then a Great Enchantress is chepaer for almost any set of magical picks and generate magical income.

I have no idea what Maverni could be doing that would involve a Lord of War being economical for anything. It's just a bad god.

-Frank

FrankTrollman · #4 October 27th, 2006, 06:35 PM

Water Magic:

I find Water Mages to be annoyingly useless under water early in the game.

Solution: Why not have Water Strike available at Evocation 0? The indeps are using it from the start of the game, why shouldn't player armies do so as well?

-Frank

Nerfix · #5 October 27th, 2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

FrankTrollman said:
Water Magic:

I find Water Mages to be annoyingly useless under water early in the game.

Solution: Why not have Water Strike available at Evocation 0? The indeps are using it from the start of the game, why shouldn't player armies do so as well?

-Frank

Also, move Boil to...like Alteration 2 or 3 and make it Fire 2 Water 1 or perhaps Water 2/3 Fire 1. An underwater only combat spell that has awkward paths and appears at Alteration 6? No thanks.

FrankTrollman · #6 October 27th, 2006, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Um, no. Lord of War is 75 points cheaper than Forge Lord or Cyclops. At least the last time I checked. =|

It sure is. However, a Forge Lord has an extra point of dominion and a point of Fire Magic. If you have a Fire Magic of 3, that costs your Forge Lord 24 points and your Lord of War 98 points. If you have a dominion of 4 it costs your Forge Lord 7 points and your Lord of War 21 points.

So that's 156 points of Forge Lord and 169 points of Lord of War.

And if the Lord of War gets anything else, the Forge Lord can get it for the same price or less.

It's cut and dried. The Lord of War is crap.

-Frank

UninspiredName · #7 October 27th, 2006, 08:51 PM

I'll second the Vampire Queen and Corpse Eater being boosted, as well as making the seniors take longer to die. Also perhaps have Old Age work by the percentage of the 'in his prime' time period, due to the also-aforementioned '51(50)/1001(1000) issue. Fire boosting aging would probably be much less of a problem itself if aging worked reasonably.

Seduction also feels like it doesn't work nearly often enough. I could swear it's literally impossible to seduce an enemy with the Oriad, though I haven't gotten the chance to try with Succubus. Some even consider it a glitch. Perhaps also add a way for such characters to improve their seduction ability.

EDIT: Also, not sure if this applies, but I could swear the AI will always go for you first before fighting other AIs. Doesn't really make sense.

The_Tauren13 · #8 October 27th, 2006, 09:33 PM

A fiend of darkness is about equally strong as a devil. Which is effed up, seeing that devils take a better mage, are more expensive, and higher research.

Nerfix · #9 October 28th, 2006, 03:36 AM

Quote:

FrankTrollman said:

Quote:

Um, no. Lord of War is 75 points cheaper than Forge Lord or Cyclops. At least the last time I checked. =|

It sure is. However, a Forge Lord has an extra point of dominion and a point of Fire Magic. If you have a Fire Magic of 3, that costs your Forge Lord 24 points and your Lord of War 98 points. If you have a dominion of 4 it costs your Forge Lord 7 points and your Lord of War 21 points.

So that's 156 points of Forge Lord and 169 points of Lord of War.

And if the Lord of War gets anything else, the Forge Lord can get it for the same price or less.

It's cut and dried. The Lord of War is crap.

-Frank

Why would I want Fire magic? All that Marverni needs is an E4 bless for the druids and good scales the I don't think any pretender does it cheaper to Lord of War.

PDF · #10 October 28th, 2006, 09:26 AM

Agreed on the ideas on
Lt Cav : it's hopeless at current prices. Either some more prec or some less gold, or a mix of both

Indy mages are very crappy now, expensive and weak. One of the other could be ok but not both...I'd rather go for somewhat boost them (50% path instead of 10 for example....) rather than making them cheaper but useless anyway !

@Endo
About archers I don't ask to have better "humans" or whatever race, my idea would be to have more variety and balance amongst archers where current only difference is prec.
So creating new bow "sub types" (inferior shortbow, etc..) could help differentiating poor troops such as Atavi or Bakemoni vs better ones, be they Ulmish or whatever.