The neo-standard thread- Standardising additional hull sizes.

[Rollo]

I have to agree with chewey that 3 worldships is a bit too much (is that used by a mod? SW maybe?). I do think the baseshipheavy is a good idea, though. So from dreadnought to superdreadnought to baseship to baseshipheavy to worldship seems a good progression.
- about massive fighter vs. scout: they might not be much different in size, but one is a ship and the other is a unit.
- I do like the idea of smaller carriers, one for each level of fighters, I assume. IMHO the smallest carrier in the stock Version is too big, anyway. Hehe, it's a nice way to get heavy mounts early, though .
- smaller and faster transports seem like a good idea, too.

So except for the three deathstars/battlemoons/whatever this all sounds very good.

But heck, what do I have to say? I am neither a modder nor a shipset maker . Just do as you feel best. This sounds very good and promising .

Rollo

edit:typo

[This message has been edited by Rollo (edited 21 November 2001).]

[Suicide Junkie]

Six new images from baseship to battlemoon does seem like a lot, but it doesen't matter much to me.

We need to hear more from the pure gamers, other modders and shipset designers like Rollo.

[Andrés]

About worldships, yes they’re used in the SW mod that isn’t a very popular mod.
I think it should be ok to make only 1, but there’s plenty of space between the 2000kt heavy baseship and the theoretical limit of 65535 kt.


Thanks to my brother insistence I’m about to resurrect the Ultimate Vehicle Size Mod.
Anyone here played with it? For those not familiar with this mod it adds a massive number of new hull sizes what gives a complete new scale to the game, but adds no new components.
60 normal ships from 75 to 40000 kt
20 carriers from 130 to 31400 kt
20 bases from 250 to 65000 kt
5 colony ships from 240 to 370 kt
20 transports from 150 to 23500 kt
10 fighters from 7 to 56 kt
10 satellites from 40 to 200 kt
10 mines from 5 to 100 kt
10 troops from 1 to 100 kt
35 weapon mounts used by different type of vehicles
Some tests show that AI can easily be patched to work in the mod.
Of course that I don’t want a different picture for each of these 165 hull sizes, but I’ll make it use the standard for the smallest ones. And for the biggest ones, well they won’t be used that much and it doesn’t really matter if a 15000 kt ship looks the same as a 35000 kt one, if it is an enemy you know you’re in trouble.

[chewy027]

wow talk about overboard

[dogscoff]

quote:

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- why 3 classes of worldships i mean isn't one enough

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Well, as with all these images, they were included because they are used in a mod. If you don't want to design 3 worldships for your shipset - no problem, just do one. S_J's program will fill in the gaps. A worldship image isn't that hard to make though, and once you've made one you can make 2 more by just resizing it. (check out the generics)

quote:

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Why if you can destroy a planet with one size ship would you bother to build the bigger ones plus it would be easier to maks just one worldship pic

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See response above, but there's more to battlemoons / death stars than destroying planets. Hell, you can get a planet destroyer on a destroyer - doesn't mean you shouldn't research beyond that.

quote:

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-why have a baseshipheavy if your gonna have world ships seeme like the same thing to me

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Base Ship Heavy is the middle ground between the baseship (standard SE4 hull, but it normally uses the starbase image) and the worldships. Basically it's for mods which want something bigger than a baseship but shaped like a ship, not a planet. Devnullmod calls it a supermonitor and neomod calls it a megaship. I think this one will prove quite popular with modders.

quote:

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- i can see having one more size of fighters but i think the massive fighter would be the same as the scout so either nix the scout or nix the massive fighter

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Again, there are several mods which add 2 extra fighter sizes, (although some of them choose not to use additional images) so we put in 2 extra fighter images. The scout... point taken, but in some shipsets there is still a big visual difference between a big fighter and a small ship.

quote:

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- to me the transporttiny and carriertiny are pretty useless. i see the advantage of being a little faster but if your going to use fighters your not gonna use a tiny carrier and if you use troops same thing applies

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Again, used in Devnullmod. Remember that adding a smaller image doesn't necessarily mean a smaller hull: You could move the small carrier hull to the tiny image, shift medium to small, large to medium and then have an extra image at the top for a larger hull. The same applies (in reverse) to the larger fighter images.

Again though, we don't want to tell anyone what to do with this. Just to suggest. If you don't want to create 20 extra images for your shipset that's perfectly understandable - just do as many as you are comfortable with and let S_J's program fill in the gaps. I'll be providing a full set for the vikings but that's only becasue (a) I'm an obsessive completist and (b) I want the vikings to be the "flagship" of the neo-standard.

I envisage shipsets being designed with just one particular mod in mind, but the beauty of this system is that _any_ extra work you do won't be lost in a single mod and appreciated by only a small minority of our niche within a niche community. The website (be it on mine or Andres' webspace) will include a table of images, hulls and mods so that you can decide which images you need to include for compatbility with your chosen mods.

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SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Go to my meagre SEIV pages to generate your own code.

[Andrés]

It would be ok with me (since my mod is the only one that uses the 3) if you want to reduce worldship pictures to only one. Besides it would be hard to actually make 3 different looking ones and most shipsets would use the copies.

[dogscoff]

OK... I'm currently putting together a few web pages for the Neo-Standard. It's not finished yet though, I'll need some more info.

I'll try to upload the files in about 4 or 5 hours time to this URL

Andres, Geo, S_J , please could you look it over and inform me of any glaring errors / incorrect assumptions. Things to look at:
-The descriptions and URLs of your mods on the mods and shipsets page.
-The secondary images and descriptions in the main table. Do you agree?
-S_J, will battlemoons be WorldShipLarge? Do you plan to use the inantry pic for your biofanatics?
-The download page: We still haven't agreed on a distribution method. I'm worried that if we include a copy in each compliant mod, ppl will end up downloading older Versions and messing up their files, as well as the duplication of data.
-On the "What is this?" link, at the bottom is a section on how to participate. Is this all OK?
-Typos, stupid mistakes (my speciality)
-Generally, is it OK? What would you add / remove?

This doesn't have to be the official or the only site. I just had some files left over from Last time.

Also, are there any more compliant shipsets I could link to? I seem to remember one with it's own battlemoon...


------------------
SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Go to my meagre SEIV pages to generate your own code.