Conceptual Balance (Discussion)

[Nerfix]

Abysia's problem with aging is twofold:

- Almost all mages start as old, even Anathem. Salamanders and Warlock Apperentics
- Abysians have tiny miny lifespans and are old at age of ~32. This makes them to be propotionaly more likely to rack afflictions from old age. Warlocks start with age of 38 IIRC.

[JaydedOne]

Nerfix said:
Abysia's problem with aging is twofold:

- Almost all mages start as old, even Anathem. Salamanders and Warlock Apperentics
- Abysians have tiny miny lifespans and are old at age of ~32. This makes them to be propotionaly more likely to rack afflictions from old age. Warlocks start with age of 38 IIRC.

From what I recall from this weekend's game in which I played Abysia, the lower-ranked Abysian priests, the Warlock Apprentices, and the Annointed of Rhuax all begin "young". You can't say "almost all" when a full half of them don't. The choice in that nation is a hard one -- you can choose cheaper, weaker versions of each type of mage/priest without old age or you can choose more expensive, old units. The Annointed is the exception and comes with his own issue (i.e. his size, which makes him a target for AI scripting.)

[Nerfix]

Let me fire up the game and check...

Yes, you are correct, but A. Salamanders have age of 28(33) and will occasionaly start with old age. So that leaves us with Blood 1 Warlock Apperentices and the 440 Gold Anointeds of Rhuax as the only reliably young mages. Anointeds are great though.

This is EA Abysia. Let me see the other ages...

[Nerfix]

MA Abysia's A. Salamanders start Old with the age of 34(33). Their Warlock Apperentices also start Old with age of 35(35)...Their only reliable young mage is the Demonbred.

Late Era Abysia, I think that the Newst and Sanguine Apperentices are only ones who don't start as Old.

[JaydedOne]

Yeah, I agree that their old age might be a bit overboard, especially with the Death Resistance that I saw discussed earlier and the way it minimizes the use of the Growth scale to protect against. I know that some part of me was wondering why I was investing so heavily in mages when a full half of them were going to die sooner than later.

The other downside there is that Abysia really is an inflexible nation in terms of unit choices. Really, what else are you supposed to buy if NOT their mages?

[Nerfix]

Demonbreds (who are good) and, uh, Newts and Sanguine Acos who can cast, errrr, Combustion and Bleed...

[B0rsuk]

If I'm not mistaken, Fire path substracts exactly 5 years per level from max age. Demo doesn't let me examine Abysia unless I play against it...

[dirtywick]

Aging with Abysia MA isn't really that huge of a problem IMO. First thing is they can forge Boots of Youth, but not for a while, so mid/late game age can be a non-issue for Abysia but not most other nations. Second thing is if you're going to play them you should be blood hunting, and with blood nations you'd usually take Growth anyway which makes a noticable impact in age afflictions, although you're still going to be seeing mages die. The last thing is you'll probably be taking Order as well since their troops are so expensive, so replacing mages isn't a big deal between that and all the fire gems you get every turn and the lack of things to do with them.

Does Old Age need a bit of adjusting? Probably, I don't find it that awful except for not taking Growth bar the occasional guy who gets diseased the turn you recruit it, but in general in my experience mages last a few years.

[Nerfix]

Well, judging from the flavour text at least the Warlock Apperentices should be young since they are said to be "young Abysians".

[Cainehill]

dirtywick said:
Aging with Abysia MA isn't really that huge of a problem IMO. First thing is they can forge Boots of Youth, but not for a while, so mid/late game age can be a non-issue for Abysia but not most other nations. Second thing is if you're going to play them you should be blood hunting, and with blood nations you'd usually take Growth anyway which makes a noticable impact in age afflictions, although you're still going to be seeing mages die.

The problem is that _ALL_ the mages you'd want to use to research towards those Boots of Youth are going to be getting diseased and dying of old age before you get them, making it rather difficult to get the research done - and you have to focus insanely on Construction, whereas Abysia usually wants Evocation and Blood.

Then, all those mages who are dying, you have to choose between research, and blood hunting. And then use your hard-earned blood slaves to save your mages, when even the petty mages need protection.