Conceptual Balance (Discussion)

[KissBlade]

Nerfix said:
So perhaps I have had bad luck with Misfortune. I don't like bad random crap happening, so I don't like Misfortune.

That's fine if YOU don't take the scale. Personally I don't mind people who don't abuse the current Order/Misfortune imbalance. It makes it easier to beat them. What I do mind is misinformation being spread to newbier players. Luck is no means "too powerful". In fact, I'd not even say it's "powerful".

[Twan]

What about changing luck/misfortune scale to +8% events chance and order to -3% ? (don't remember if it was done in CB for dom2 or another mod I've tested, but it was a good idea anyway). Also the chances of good/bad events may be increased, ie +15% / luck scale.

So with order 3 / misf 3, you' have +15% of having events (with 95% of bad events it's not really attractive), and +33% with luck 3 / turmoil 3 with 95% of good events (instead of +0% / +30%, and 89% of the events being good/bad).

[FrankTrollman]

What I do mind is misinformation being spread to newbier players.

Heck, I mind people going off as if their personal play style were somehow divine writ and that other playing styles were somehow "wrong." Telling people about your play style and how it works when you use it is not "misinformation."

-Frank

[KissBlade]

FrankTrollman said:

Heck, I mind people going off as if their personal play style were somehow divine writ and that other playing styles were somehow "wrong." Telling people about your play style and how it works when you use it is not "misinformation."

-Frank

Stating which effects are more powerful than another isn't playing style. It is mathematics. Considering this is a thread about BALANCE, I don't even say what playing styles have to do with it.

[Teraswaerto]

I'm sure you are right in saying order is clearly better in most cases, but:

Have you actually done math on how powerful luck is? Seems it would be rather complicated to calculate a thing like that, especially since you get more than money with good events (magic items, etc.).

[KissBlade]

Teraswaerto said:
I'm sure you are right in saying order is clearly better in most cases, but:

Have you actually done math on how powerful luck is? Seems it would be rather complicated to calculate a thing like that, especially since you get more than money with good events (magic items, etc.).

It's true, you do get some really uber events with Luck. I had a lot of fun with my old max all positive scales but Turmoil 2 back in Dom II because everytime you get that 1500 gold event, you just want to jump out of your seat. But you've said it yourself, Order is clearly better in most cases. Luck's problem is, not all the extra events it adds are positive. Which is EXTREMELY LAME. In order words, you have actually a good chance of having a crappy event from those extra events you're getting from turmoil or luck! Even worse is some of the "positive" events aren't even positive! Oh look, you got 60 militia in the same province as your army who's now eating up the valuable food from your REAL troops. Yay =(

Balance wise, Luck needs a buff, Order needs a nerf. It's obviously not as simple as simply saying that but I'm actually pretty convinced that some of the current imbalances we're seeing is simply because of the Order scale's existence. I'd like to really play some test MP games where you ban the Order scale and ONLY the order scale and seeing where it goes.

Edit: Dom II. not III.

[Zen]

The main difference between Luck and Order from Dom2 to Dom3, is that gold across the board was raised, and Order as a base % modifier was raised at the same rate as the general gold per population.

Luck's events, max number of events per turn (3) have not been scaled, like the gold per population or even resources. So bad events are a drop in the bucket of gold (what is 100 gold as a bad or good event in Dom3's rich gold world, gem events while nice, have less of an impact since Magic (especially summons) has less of a total gamewide impact as opposed to Dom2).

Also, Order not only gets you the gold you want, but allows at the very least a free 40 points (Misfortune 1, with order 3, is pretty standard when hunting for points as it's overall impact is very low).

Luck with a different eventlist would be as strong as in Dom2, if it scaled to the changes that were made between Dom2 to Dom3.