Downloadable retail needed?

[Gandalf Parker]

I dont think its a choice thing. No one is arguing that they should. They might not even argue that they should. But its not the same as offering a patch or a demo. Its not something that can just be turned on. People will put up with alot for small free files that they wont put up with for a large expensive one. The management system, the security, the servers, the customer support, all goes way up for digital download. Ive been involved in trying to create systems like that and I begged out. It was more than I was willing to accept responsibility for.

When someone offers an installable package like they have for shopping carts, forums, PMs, blogs, etc etc then we might see it.

[CharonJr]

I am all for a merger of Shrapnel, Matrixgames, Battlefront, Stardock and Paradox

With the games they publish and 2 established downloadable retail systems between them this would fix both my gaming and my instant gratification needs

CharonJr

[PhilD]

Gandalf Parker said:
I dont think its a choice thing. No one is arguing that they should.

Well, precisely, some people are arguing that they should.

[Gandalf Parker]

PhilD said:

Well, precisely, some people are arguing that they should.

But some are making it sound like they are choosing not to. As if its as simple as making the demo available by download.

Most people if they think about it will realize that its not that easy. Tracking a download to a payment, being secure in keeping that payment info, handling broken downloads, connecting a broken download back to a payment, and doing it all in a way that keeps someone from abusing it to get free copies. Not to mention making it work with as little manual management as possible.

Even that doesnt cover what a release would do to them. The hassle we had wiating for our pre-orders would have been nothing compared to having everyone trying to download it at the same time. Especially the lag that is caused by having dialups and far overseas locations hanging onto a connection long enough to download the whole game.

GalCiv is a sweet arrangment but some users have a problem with it and Id hate to have to install software for every game company that I want to do business with. Even Matrix seems to use it only for smaller games which are not company make-or-break products. Shrapnel does have downloadable games so they have tried it. They just dont seem ready to offer Dominions that way (yet), and I dont see where the benefit of it outweighs the chances they would take. Its not that kindof a game.

[calmon]

Gandalf Parker said:
and I dont see where the benefit of it outweighs the chances they would take. Its not that kindof a game.

The biggest benefit is that we can get the game as soon as possible, regardless where you live.

[Maltrease]

Frankly, I'm not even sure that piracy is that big of an issue as long as people couldn't play multiplayer games with a pirated copy.

I found Dominions 2 on a "trial" game index website. Downloaded and liked the game. Downloaded the demo to play with the latest patched versions and promptly bought the game to play online with others and to get the full version with the latest patches.

A "trial" version on a game like this will never be up to date... or if it was Dominions would be so vastly more popular that I doubt shrapnel or Illwinter would be complaining.

And someone that is into the game is going to be dying to read through a huge list of patches and additions that they don't have access to.

If it wasn't for that "trial" site I may have never found Dominions and Shrapnel would never have got my $110.

Its kind of a separate issue, but if you take a reduced stance on piracy it can simplify an online distribution.

Basically you need to let anyone who has bought the game be able to download it (username and password login to a download site). Track how many times it was download... so you can cut them off at 10 or 20 times unless they send and email (basically in case the account was shared with others).

Then you just protect the serials numbers.

I haven't checked the "trial" sites for Dominions. But the last thing you want is someone that wants the game right now... and finds out that they can get a version immediately illegally versus waiting a week to buy it legitimately. But I suppose even in that case they will still eventually buy it so they can play multiplayer. What you wouldn’t get are people that ended up not liking the game enough to buy it later who might have dropped the money before they didn’t know they wouldn’t be in love with it (Sword of the Stars in my case).

[PhilD]

Maltrease said:
Its kind of a separate issue, but if you take a reduced stance on piracy it can simplify an online distribution.

This is basically what Stardock does. Shrapnel seems to take a mixed stance: no "please insert CD #x" nonsense, but, at least in the case of Dominions, at least the non-distribution of a PDF manual serves as a minor deterrent to piracy. Not a huge issue to me, and it's clearly their call.

[Maltrease]

Since I already have the game its not a big issue to me either. Before I had the game... it was more important.

[alexti]

Maltrease said:
What you wouldn’t get are people that ended up not liking the game enough to buy it later who might have dropped the money before they didn’t know they wouldn’t be in love with it (Sword of the Stars in my case).

I would argue that it is a good approach. If you buy some product and you realize you don't like it you can return it back to the retailer. Computer games somehow are exception from that (ok, usually you can return them back, but it's a bit of a hassle). So if the publisher/developer don't mind not getting money from people who tried the game and didn't like I support them in that decision.

[Tim Brooks]

Hi all.

It is always interesting to read threads like these. you know, we have a very different philospohy on our games than most. But we analyze what is happening, what people are saying and then we look at the reality. So far, we haven't seen that making a game downloadable adds to sales, at least not in the way you hope it would. Janster, don't you miss out on games if the only way you would buy them is by download? Someone here (wait, that was me!) said that if you had bought the game the day you started this thread, you would be playing it now. I guess to each his own and I don't fault you for your dl fanatacism, but Dominions 3 won't be available in a download version as there are no plans for that at all.

Happy Gaming!