Better AI Idea - modders please read

[Jourin]

Master Belisarius,

Thanks for the feedback on the states. Does anyone know the rules why an AI would go into each state? Maybe we could ask MM to publish the rules.

Since the Last patch I have seen the AI group mine sweepers, so maybe that problem is fixed. On too many mine sweepers wasting resources. Maybe 10 is too much, but 6 is the minimum. I would rather build the extra minesweepers once then build over a 100+ ships and constantly feed them into the meat grinder of a mine field. Adding mine sweeper components helps clear the minefield, but that is one less weapon, shield, or armor to help in the battle when it counts. The XiChung sent in the minesweepers first, they just didn't send in enough. If they had 8 less ships and 8 more mine sweepers (They were at mine 2 level), I would have been in trouble. 32 (orignial 40 - 8 for extra mine sweepers) ships would have broken into a system that was defended by nothing. But what happened is that my minefield, constantly being re-seeded killed over a 100+ ships. Yes they finally broke through with 16 heavily damaged crusiers to be met and destroyed by 9 destroyers. Those 9 destroyers + 6 minesweepers, then conquered the next couple of systems. I emplaced another minefield and watched as the AI again killed itself. I then quite the game. I was playing high bonus for the AI.

If separate queues are not the answer, then move the minesweepers to the top of the queue and increase to 6.

[Master Belisarius]

"Since the Last patch I have seen the AI group mine sweepers"

Yes, sometimes the AI use them in "Groups". But the AI move the mine-sweepers one after one, not like a true fleet... this is a problem when try to remove a big minefield, that would be removed without loses for all the minesweepers at the same time, but not sending the minesweepers one after one.
Well, at least this was my experience, but maybe, now the AI is more smart (I hope!!!).

Also, the minesweepers never are protected by warships. For this reason, some moders have included weapons into the minesweepers designs.

I really like the description of your game. But please note that a fleet of 40 war ships with 1 minesweeper component level 3, would have removed the minefield without take loses.

I agree that the AI script must include minesweepers, but also, at least one mine-sweeper component should be included into the attack ships.

Finally, I always believed that a way to help the AI with the minefields, is using the cloak components... but sadly, a cloaked ship can't remove mines!!!! I have reported it to MM many times... and currently I'm not sure if this is a feature or a bug.

[Mark Walton]

Even better than telling us the rules for state change, give us control!

Add this to my wish list:

Let us tell the AI under what circumstances to change state, and which state to change to. Let us create our own states and set any variables / actions this state requires. We could write some real, killer AIs.

I would like to be able to create my own list of variables too, and give the AI rules for reading/setting them. So they AI could count total losses to minefields, or number of colonizable worlds, or estimates on enemy strengths in systems...

[DirectorTsaarx]

I've seen the AI (specifically the Xi'Chung and Ukra'Tal) do very well with minesweepers. I lost a couple of systems to each race because I couldn't replenish the minefields fast enough. Both races had dreadnought-sized (!) minesweepers that worked in pairs (I think I saw a fleet of 3 minesweepers once), and each dreadnought was capable of clearing an entire minefield by itself. Of course, they both lost a few fleets to various minefields before sweeping them, but that happens to humans sometimes too.

It is unfortunate that the minesweepers don't get placed in fleets with attack ships, but at least that way there's a chance that the attack fleet won't be destroyed by the Last few mines if the minesweepers aren't sufficient.

[Atraikius]

I know I have seen the AI use actual fleets of minesweepers (happened to check on one of mine), and have seen it multiple times. I have caught the orks with a fleet of 5 dreadnaught minesweepers (5 minesweeper 4 components each) twice.

I agree on the giving us the ability of controlling AI states, that was one of my wish lists items in a previous thread. Need more than just controlling when the AI changes states, the state also seems to effect which ministers have priority over different functions, and what functions they will use; I want to be able to set those too.

[God Emperor]

I agree with Master Belisarius. The AI cannot/doesnt make use of specialised components effectively so its best to design their ships as "Swiss Army Knives". All of my races Attack ships include at least one minesweeper component whilst Minesweeper ships include limited weapons.
If you play strategic combat, the Swiss Army Knife ships tend to perform better too...

[Jourin]

This past weekend I ran a series of 5 test games with 10 AIs (I sometimes took control). I changed the minimum number of mine sweepers to 6 in all the AI scripts. Prior to an attack, the AI built 6 minesweepers and sent them in as a group. The six minesweepers cleared the 100 mines in usually in the first pass (depending on mine level - in one case the did not, but cleared the majority that the fleet, although depleted still made it through the minefield) and then sent in the 40 ship fleet. I could no longer depend on minefields for the AI to kill itself on. I recommend that all the modpack AI mod makers seriously consider upgrading the minimum number of minesweepers to 6. Conduct your own tests but please consider.

Other tests:
I added a separate queue for attack, but left the prepare to attack queue the same. Did not achieve the expected results. I could not find a clear distinction between attack and prepare to attack by the AI. Recommend keeping the current setup on one queue for both.

I added a separate queue for defend (long term), and in all but one case achieved the expected results. The AI consistently went into this state when it was loosing. I used this queue to have the AI build lots of mines, satellites, fighters, weapon platforms, bases, and then ships. The AI put up such a strong defense that it actually stopped me. Usually once I get the AI on the ropes, it folds, but it actually stopped me. The one case that it didn't work occurred when an Ork ship was transported by an event into Norak space and moved into the Norak home system. The Norak's went into the defend long term state for over 50 turns. Maybe since the Norak's could not attack because of no direct contact, the AI put them into the defend long term state, or maybe since the home system was "attacked", the AI went into the defend long term state. So I added a colonizer back into this queue but with a minimum of 1. The AI needs to build at least 1 colonizer so it doesn't kill itself like the Norak's by not expanding, but does not need to constantly waste resources by building colonizers that immediately get destroyed when actually in a real defensive situation. I replayed the Norak game and with the addition of the colonizer, the Norak's changed states and moved out of defend long term much sooner then 50 turns. So it played differently the second time around.

Recommend that the modpack AI makers seriously consider and test a separate queue for defend long term.

I also made a separate research queue for defend long term, so it would research defensive techs. Maybe could expand to include separate techs for infrastructure, etc. Might also help the AI.

Going to take a break from SEIV since it is the only game I have played for a year and try some Civ III, but since I still love SEIV I will be back.