Newbie Game EA (Running)

FAJ · #1 November 14th, 2006, 06:51 PM

All this talk about the Heims has got me curious. I hope i survive long enough to be crushed by them. I would like to see what the hubub is all about.

Foodstamp · #2 November 14th, 2006, 07:28 PM

I think it is possible to beat them, but I think it will require MASSED damage casters (Which my nation lacks) and upper end summons with solid morale (Still a bit early in the game for that).

Its a bit early for me to do a Post Mortem of this game, but I made a few mistakes when dealing with the *heims. But I honestly do not feel if these mistakes were rectified, I would have stood much of a chance. I could have shaped my nation from the start to deal with double bless heims and I think I would still be in the exact same situation I am facing at the moment.

I am not mad at all, I don't blame these players for choosing strategies that are known game winners, rather than rolling the dice with their own strategies. Lack of originality is hardly an offence in online games, especially when your primary focus is winning at all costs. Some veterans talk about how you can beat them with this and this, if that were the case, most nations would be built in that fashion and the heims would be a non issue.

Shovah32 · #3 November 14th, 2006, 08:24 PM

Quote:

FAJ said:
All this talk about the Heims has got me curious. I hope i survive long enough to be crushed by them. I would like to see what the hubub is all about.

The hubub about the EA 'heims is pretty simple, they have very powerful (multiple attacks, glamour, high defence, berserk/mounted, good other stats) sacred troops (regular for van, flying or mounted for hel), access to good earth magic (and therefore bladewind, the EA army destroyed), access to very strong commanders who can be easily made into thugs (can cast air buffs, only missing foot slots, great stats ect) and, of course, they have amazing regular troops because, almost all of their units have above average stats and glamour (therefore they are extremely hard to hit and have stealth+25).

Sheap · #4 November 14th, 2006, 09:22 PM

It definitely is possible to beat a 'heim bless but to do so you have to devote your nation just to doing that. So, if you prepare for the bless, you will lose, because other nations will outgrow you or out-research you; if you don't prepare, you will lose, because you will get overrun by the bless-heims. I won't guarantee every nation has a good defense against them, but all the few that I've looked at so far do.

Basically I think Glamour is just too good to have on a recruitable unit, and the defense 19 on the Helhirdings is pretty huge. Normal troops will simply not hit them. You *must* use magic. Neifelheim bless works a little differently, of course.

One of the things that makes Heim blesses so strong is the relative lack of constraint on the Holy resource. Compare a Helhirding or Vanhere to a C'Tis serpent dancer or sacred serpent. The bless is the same, and C'tis has plenty of priests, but you are just not going to make the bulk of your army out of sacreds with C'Tis because you will not have enough holy points. With the heims, and their high-quality, high-cost sacreds, you can make almost your entire army sacred.

I do think the 'heims are a little too strong but they are obviously not the only way you can build a strong nation, Tien Chi is dominating this game magically for instance. But then, they were also fortunate enough to not have a starting position right next to a bless rusher.

FrankTrollman · #5 November 14th, 2006, 09:35 PM

Quote:

I do think the 'heims are a little too strong but they are obviously not the only way you can build a strong nation, Tien Chi is dominating this game magically for instance. But then, they were also fortunate enough to not have a starting position right next to a bless rusher.

Uhhh.... our first war was with Helheim. They paid us 200 gold for a cease fire when we killed 20 of their Helhirdings.

The Great Catsby has Spoken.

Sheap · #6 November 14th, 2006, 10:40 PM

Never mind, I was right the first time

RamsHead · #7 November 14th, 2006, 11:30 PM

I must point out that I, as Helheim, have not used a dual bless strategy unlike *cough T'ien Ch'i and *cough Ulm who are *cough allies *cough. Excuse me, I seem to have a tickle.

Stryke11 · #8 November 14th, 2006, 11:52 PM

Let's not forget that even without glamour, Neifelheim is also using a bless rush to devastating effect.

Ironhawk. I'd enjoy playing another newbie game if the 'heims were disallowed or neutered, but also I think for a newbie game, a bigger map with some more breathing space would be nice, too. I never expanded enough to get comfortable, and it was just my bad luck to land in the middle of the map surrounded by other nations. Not to say a bigger map would guarantee more space and time for buildup, due to random placement, but it would hopefully give newbies like me who don't know bless strategy from greek and who need some living space to get the ball rolling.

I have considered that playing some "blitz" games with experienced players would build up my strategies and knowledge base in a hurry, but I don't even know how to get involved in one of those or how it works.

Just an OT and random idea, too: Ermor has sacred units that are heavy cavalry and recruitable non prophet priests who (iirc) have the three candles to mass bless, so maybe a dual bless would work for NF Ermor. Has anyone tried this? I assume since no one has mentioned it before that there is probably some reason why it wouldn't work. I kinda like Ermor as a nation and would prefer to learn how to make them great, at least for MP, then switch to an easier nation.

FrankTrollman · #9 November 15th, 2006, 04:20 AM

Quote:

RamsHead said:
I must point out that I, as Helheim, have not used a dual bless strategy unlike *cough T'ien Ch'i and *cough Ulm who are *cough allies *cough. Excuse me, I seem to have a tickle.

We have a what? You've seen our troops, and we've seen yours. Your units have a larger bless bonus in two categories than ours...

-Finger Pointing is Hilarious

Ironhawk · #10 November 14th, 2006, 08:59 PM

Quote:

FAJ said:
All this talk about the Heims has got me curious. I hope i survive long enough to be crushed by them. I would like to see what the hubub is all about.

I actually investigated the power of the Helheim bless strategy last night and I do have to admit that it is overpowered in dom3. Not massively so but still, overpowered. I did find several counters that I felt would work very well against a strategy of this kind but I would not expect a new player to come up with them when a Heim army was knocking at thier door.

That said, I think it would be premature to give up on this game, or MP games in the near future. First because bless strategies run out of steam as the game goes on. And second because, in the next newbie game I host I believe I will just make it a house rule that the Heims are not allowed to use a bless strategy. Or just not allow those nations in the game at all.