What about interactive Tactical Combat ?

[Hullu]

I think a combat simulator would be a bad thing.

People would use it in MP to optimize and calculate odds. Sure, it's hard to get exact information about the enemy but it's doable with scout forces(attack, station a few cheap squads near the middle of map, with retreat order(s)). And once you have approximate information and approximate information abuot enemy orders - you could just brute force the 'perfect' tactic for yourself pitting the army you saw against your 'main army'. Definitely this would be a huge advantage compared to if you weren't using it.

Thus, I find combat simulator a bad thing.

[Agrajag]

Considering how you can already do that if you really want to, this isn't a good reason not to add a combat simulator...

[Endoperez]

Agrajag said:
Considering how you can already do that if you really want to, this isn't a good reason not to add a combat simulator...

Err... I think you just said that the fact that we can already do everything a combat simulator would let us do isn't a good reason not to make a combat simulator.

[Agrajag]

Endoperez said:

Err... I think you just said that the fact that we can already do everything a combat simulator would let us do isn't a good reason not to make a combat simulator.

Yep, I just did.
Because a combat simulator will make it a lot easier and more comfortable.
Just like we can already give a unit special abilities using #copystats, but its still much better to have a new command for what we want.
Or just like you can make 5000$ if you work hard enough, but you'd still rather get the same amount of money and work less. Or do you like working for 1$ an hour?

[Endoperez]

Agrajag said:
Just like we can already give a unit special abilities using #copystats, but its still much better to have a new command for what we want.
Or just like you can make 5000$ if you work hard enough, but you'd still rather get the same amount of money and work less. Or do you like working for 1$ an hour?

I don't like working for 1$ an hour. Most people don't. That's why having a battle simulator would make it feasible to test multiple different strategies and scripts until you know exactly what you should do, in a way map scripting won't.

[Hullu]

A controlled arena or something would be a solution. One to which you can't put just any armies you like, but for example only three squads and only two commanders. Or something like that - anyway something that can not be used to optimize complex MP combats.

I find a free simulator a legitimate threat to the fun of MP. I'd almost be forced to use it myself, since I'd be scared my enemy are using it, and thus not using it would put me in a disadvantage.

[PhilD]

Hullu said:
A controlled arena or something would be a solution. One to which you can't put just any armies you like, but for example only three squads and only two commanders. Or something like that - anyway something that can not be used to optimize complex MP combats.

I find a free simulator a legitimate threat to the fun of MP. I'd almost be forced to use it myself, since I'd be scared my enemy are using it, and thus not using it would put me in a disadvantage.

I really cannot understand such concerns, since, as has been pointed out, the possibility of doing this does exist, in the form of map scripting and fake MP playing. Someone who really wanted to do it, could. They could write their own tools to make map scripting easier, and would not have to let you see them. Then you wouldn't know about them, but they'd be able to use their tools - but you wouldn't.

All a battle simulator would add, would be ease of use. Maybe.

[Agrajag]

Endoperez said:
I don't like working for 1$ an hour. Most people don't. That's why having a battle simulator would make it feasible to test multiple different strategies and scripts until you know exactly what you should do, in a way map scripting won't.

But map scripting can do all that a battle simulator will do, it just takes a bit more setup.
The difference between an extra 10 minutes to optimize your battle isn't that big of an obstacle, however the benefit of a battle simulator can be huge.
The obvious advantage is making the game easier to learn for newbies, which is a department in which Dom3 is seriously lacking.
Another advantage, which is why I'd personally like a combat simulator is that it can be a huge help in modding by making sure your new nation is balanced. Sure, I could just set up different scenarios with the map editor, but if I want to compare my nation to all the rest in its age, its going to take longer to set up and observe, to the point where I'd rather just have an unbalanced nation and be done with it...

I'd also like to remind you we already had a fan-made combat simulator in dom2, and it didn't ruin MP for anyone.

[Hullu]

I'd also like to remind you we already had a fan-made combat simulator in dom2, and it didn't ruin MP for anyone.

Maybe you just didn't see it ruin it for anyone!

But I don't think we're talking about an extra ten minutes here. To get good advantage you need to run dozens of combats or more. If it's fast or even trivial with a simulator compared to hours when doing it manually then I wouldn't give the simulator to the public...

[AMF]

Hullu said:
I think a combat simulator would be a bad thing.
...People would use it in MP to optimize and calculate odds.

You know, I agree with that concern, and it worries me also. But the real reason I would like one is to understand the strengths of units, and how the various characteristics interact and make a difference. I mean, I can read about what precision 15, or strength 5, or spell X and spell Y mean, but I really don't have a good intuitive sense...maybe I'm just alone in this, but what I would use a simulator for is to educate myself about things like that.

I think what I'm really talking about is an Arena, where I can see how a few units of my choosing can stack up against a few other units of my choosing.

So, I guess that is my revised suggestion: how about a Arena Simulator, or a "Gladitorial Pit" where we can pit one or two of our chosen heroes against some other heroes. Maybe it could be made in-game, so that I can issue a challenge to other players or the AI empires and send 1-3 of my heroes against theirs - they would choose who they send...and the losers die. Just like the Arena event, but between two empires, and there is no concrete reward except the death of your enemies...

Just thinking out loud, I haven't thought through the ramifications. But it sounds fun.