The problem of low hit points on humans

Hullu · #1 November 24th, 2006, 05:42 AM

I find it weird that people find this a problem.

If 10hp is the 'average human', I then personally know people in real life who have less than 5hp, and people who have way over 20hp.

Why don't our FANTASY heroes have the variety that is present even in our normal everyday life?

If someone failed to understand, I don't see any realistic, thematic, moral or balance reason why human heroes should have 15hp or so maximum. I just fail to see _ANY_ reason why they have to be so brittle.

Saarud · #2 November 24th, 2006, 06:00 AM

While I like how the game currently treats human commanders I also understand that some people want more human heroes, heck I would like that myself. Isn't it possible to keep the commanders as they are and create a new unit for human nations that is called Hero. This unit could be abit better at certain things including HP. The best thing would be if it could be randomized (kinda like mages with magic) on certain skills. They should be quite abit more expensive though as heroes do demand more treasures than regular people.Also they should have zero commanding ability and leave that to the regular commanders.

Can anyone with the skills make a hero mod like that?

Hullu · #3 November 24th, 2006, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Saarud said:
Isn't it possible to keep the commanders as they are and create a new unit for human nations that is called Hero.

There already are heroes, you get them with (at least) positive luck scales. That's the point (I think) of this thread to begin with that human heroes suck

Saarud · #4 November 24th, 2006, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Hullu said:

Quote:

Saarud said:
Isn't it possible to keep the commanders as they are and create a new unit for human nations that is called Hero.

There already are heroes, you get them with (at least) positive luck scales. That's the point (I think) of this thread to begin with that human heroes suck

Hey don't be rude.... I'm very well aware of the predone heroes that appears randomly. And I do agree that some of those human heroes do suck. In the initial post he also mention that commanders should have more HP than the regular guy, and I disagree with that I do think commanders feels quite good now, they are there to command. Getting free heroes is also great even if they aren't as good as they perhaps should be, but it would also be fun to have a recruitable hero with variable skills (such as some mages with magics).

PvK · #5 November 25th, 2006, 01:16 AM

Exactly, Taqwus!

Edit: LOL!

We're all posting at the same time. I should have written "Exactly, Epaminondas", about the points about Achilles being a great example of high Prot with human HP, Herakles being like a Dom 3 Prophet, etc.

Epaminondas · #6 November 24th, 2006, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Hullu said:
I find it weird that people find this a problem.

If 10hp is the 'average human', I then personally know people in real life who have less than 5hp, and people who have way over 20hp.

Why don't our FANTASY heroes have the variety that is present even in our normal everyday life?

If someone failed to understand, I don't see any realistic, thematic, moral or balance reason why human heroes should have 15hp or so maximum. I just fail to see _ANY_ reason why they have to be so brittle.

Yes, Hullu. The "variety" argument is precisely why I said that it is actually "realistic" for some humans to have considerably higher HPs than the average man.

Twan · #7 November 24th, 2006, 06:44 AM

Moddable xp effects would be good and please everyone (as it gives freedom to add more hp or other stats or not, or even reduce some actual effects if a modder want, and this in a mod far easier to do than one changing the base stats of dozens of units) it's in good place in my wishlist of mod commands.

TomD · #8 November 24th, 2006, 07:18 AM

How much variety in hp is there really in real life? If your head is cut off you die. If you take an arrow in the lung then in real life you're not fighting any more, no matter how big and tough you are.

But I agree that human heroes need a boost. If some heroes had "super-luck" (80% or higher even)then that alone would greatly improve their survivability, and still be in character.

"Whether it is the favour of his God, the Fates, or the universe itself, X has an uncanny ability to trip over just as the fatal blow slices through the space where his head was moments before."

Hullu · #9 November 24th, 2006, 08:09 AM

Quote:

How much variety in hp is there really in real life? If your head is cut off you die. If you take an arrow in the lung then in real life you're not fighting any more, no matter how big and tough you are.

Depends a lot.

I know a guy in rl who feels almost no pain, I don't know how you could really model this into an mmorpg but a guy like that would certainly be combat-capable a _LOT_ longer than the average guy.

Then come blunt weapons, physical size helps a LOT against blunt weapons. Whereas a small guy fractures a bone a really big guy is hardly even hurt.

Piercing weapons? You need to pierce a LOT further on a 110kg Conan compared to a 45kg geek - again more durability.

Sharp cutting edges, even on those you need considerably more force to cut 'all the way to the bone' if there's triple the amount of flesh in the way.

The smaller it is, the easier it is to kill. I'd BET there's differences of hundreds of percentages when it comes to survibability from trauma when it comes to humans. Actually no need to bet on that, everyone knows that.

So back to your questions:

Quote:

If your head is cut off you die.

It is actually considerably harder to cut the head off a big man, than from a small man. If you 'only' cut to the bone, surviving is possible, with modern medicine, and certainly with healing spells.

Quote:

If you take an arrow in the lung then in real life you're not fighting any more, no matter how big and tough you are.

On the big man the arrow might not penetrate all the way to the lung, thus creating a 1-3hp damage instead of 100% hp damage.

Endoperez · #10 November 24th, 2006, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Hullu said:
The smaller it is, the easier it is to kill. I'd BET there's differences of hundreds of percentages when it comes to survibability from trauma when it comes to humans. Actually no need to bet on that, everyone knows that.

Actually, you defined natural protection in there. While being big might have that effect in real life, having natural protection 5 would have the same effect in Dominions world. Cutting your throat still kills you, but one hit won't do it. If the arrow to the chest was a crossbow bolt, instead, the big guy would still die.