The value of site searching rainbow pretenders

Strages Sanctus · #1 December 11th, 2006, 04:59 PM

ok, that makes much more sense to me. Thanks!.

So most sites are found at much lower levels of magic?

I have seen posts to that effect. I guess I should look in the manual to see if it has anything about the number of sites that can only be found at x level of magical ability.

Shovah32 · #2 December 11th, 2006, 05:01 PM

Almost all sites are lvl 2 or below.

curtadams · #3 December 11th, 2006, 05:47 PM

If you've got a 2 all-around pretender 1 turn moving and 1 turn searching will (ignoring blood) save you 7x2 = 14 gems, and, assuming you're getting five research from each search caster, 35 research. Said pretender only generates (7x2+3)x2 = 34 research in those two turns. So you're gaining 14 gems and 1 research point for the cost of missing level 3 and 4 sites. Generally speaking, that's a pretty good deal.

Of course you can't really use those gems until you have some research, and researchers are very limited at the start. So it generally makes sense for your rainbow pretender to research for a while - but after you've got good research going he's an efficient searcher.

In general manual searching is more efficient that spell searching. Manual searching spends gold (the cost of the searchers or their replacements in the case of a rainbow) but saves gems. Cost varies with your research cost, but it's usually a better deal than alchemizing. However, it's a LOT more work and not really worth it for most people -although out of habit I use search squads.

Strages Sanctus · #4 December 11th, 2006, 05:59 PM

Some great info, thanks!

Caduceus · #5 December 11th, 2006, 06:07 PM

Not that I am expert, but your 2-3 leveled pretender who is searching in friendly dominion is also more protected, if he has a small army with him, as this will increase his HP which can be a bit dicey earlier in the game.

Taqwus · #6 December 11th, 2006, 06:24 PM

Hmmm. Perhaps I've missed something, but you CAN'T search ten provinces in ten consecutive turns with the same pretender.

It should be noted that Arcane Probing and Dark Knowledge only require a single point in the relevant magic paths, making them particularly good candidates for remote searches. Even a Lizard Shaman can find you all astral sites this way without items or empowerment, and a Revenant does the same for death.

Strages Sanctus · #7 December 11th, 2006, 06:35 PM

aht is far worse then you are right.. I forgot about the move in between searches... so that is a loss of 600+ research. Definitely a major waste especially since I was searching fields and farmlands...

Looking back It was 5 locations over 10 turns...

Tyrant · #8 December 11th, 2006, 07:35 PM

If your pretender has only a few paths, radar spells are ok, but for a true rainbow manual searching is the way to go because you are searching for many different paths with one turn's effort. If you spent the points to get a rainbow mage, you made him for searching, and that's what he should do. Otherwise you should have taken a Great Sage.

Shovah is completely correct about 1-2 level sites being by far the most common, but on the other hand the many of the higher ones are very very good, so it is a tough call on whether to go 2 or 3. If i remember correctly, and if D3 hasn't changed it, and if the map does not have special sites, there are only a handful of 4s, so you it's pretty safe to go 3 and be confident that you aren't missing much.
The question is, how many paths can you afford to take 3 in, and that depends on the nation, the game settings, and the rest of your plan.

I reccommend a Master Lich as as rainbow pretender, especially for a non-death nation- start dominion 3, 20/path, immortal so you don't have to worry about his safety, and useful in other roles later in the game, or early if your plans go awry.

Others play it differently, but i use the radar spells only sparingly in the mid/late game to target "likely" spots- ie provinces that have screwy scales that hint at hidden sites, rough terrain that has no sites after search by my nationals, or conquered territory that i believe has been partially searched by my foe and may be dangerous to search manualy. Also, if i randomly get ahold of a single caster who can use a radar spell in a path that i cannot otherwise do, i will set him to radar searching. For instance, if i'm playing an astral nation without air, my first Harbinger will usually spend most of his life in a lab casting Auspex.

The magic/arms balance has swung heavily in favor of arms between DomII and D3, but gem income is still a decisive factor and finding more sites faster is a huge advantage IF you can survive long enough to do the research to put it into play. For this reason, i consider rainbows to be an excellent strategy, but riskier than the two main alternatives- SC pretender and high bless. If some smart alec with double 9 blessed sacreds or killer Naharraja jumps you on turn 8 you may be screwed, but if your regular forces are good enough that you can defend yourself you will gain an increasing edge as the game goes on.

Saxon · #9 December 13th, 2006, 09:44 AM

Hmm, 50 out of 400 is about 12.5% and they tend to be the richest of the bunch. While I agree that the radar spells are great, I do find hitting level four for the bless and a chunk of the gem sites useful. Level 3 is what I find questionable.

Edi · #10 December 13th, 2006, 10:09 AM

Some of them are the richest, but a lot of them are either rare or unique or both. That means that betting on finding them is uncertain at best and results in lots of idling for a powerful researcher/forger.

I do have a good handle on which sites are unique based on both the Dom2 Site DB and names, but the problem is that uniqueness is also tied to the location masks (it's one more value for the mask).

I can divine most of the masks and frequencies from the old DB, but I need either the source code or somebody reverse engineering the masks out of the game somehow for the rest of them.

Edi