Will Vanheim Ever Become Spayed?

[Edi]

NTJedi said:
Such immature behavior, as hard as it may be for you keep your conversation civilized please do your best.

Perhaps if you had gone to any kind of school that taught manners you'd be able to refrain from using that bloody rolleyes icon every time somebody disagrees with you. It gives the impression of you having your nose stuck up in the air so high that it rains INTO your nostrils. So don't be surprised that you get a response in kind. We have a saying here that goes something along the lines of "So the forest answers as it is called" and you're just seeing it in action.

NTJedi said:
The point being that if a few stronger nations exist within the game then the newbie players have more of a sense of security and confidence for starting a multiplayer game. "It's much harder learning how to ride a bike by starting up a steep hill."

See what Graeme posted. As well, you still refuse to address the distinction between "strong" and "ridiculously lopsided". Of course there are stronger and weaker nations, just as there were in Dom1 and Dom2, but that does not mean that some have to be orders of magnitude above others. You do understand the concept "order of magnitude", I hope?

NTJedi said: Also SP gamers need very powerful nations whether they are new to the game or experts looking for a powerful enemy.

Then they can either mod them or play with self-imposed handicaps such as not maxing out everything as per competitive MP style play.

NTJedi said:
As mentioned earlier the stronger nations provide the newbie gamers more confidence when playing a multiplayer game.

Provided they know which nations are the strongest and that they are not already taken. See Graeme's point again. New players do not need excessive security guarantees, they just need a decent chance and the more experienced people giving them a few breaks instead of ruthlessly exploiting every mistake they see the newbie making.

NTJedi said:
And there's no balance problem since there's LOTS of nations for every era.

There's no balance problem what with certain natiuons being ridiculously stronger than others because there's a lot of nations total. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
In case you aren't familiar with logic, that's a non sequitur.

NTJedi said:
Also your desire to weaken the stronger nations is from a multiplayer only view. In singleplayer games many new gamers enjoy playing the stronger nations and as they become more experienced they enjoy playing against the stronger nations. The game is very successful in its current format and I doubt we'll being seeing a change for the few wanting the "weaken the stronger nations" view.

As Graeme said, the MP aspect is one of the most important aspects of the game and a driving force behind the community. Hence things that detract from it, such as obvious balance problems that are not within the normal variation, are bad for the game and for the community. Why the hell do you think the CB mods were such a big hit with Dom2? They removed the most glaring problems while maintaining the game as it was meant to play. This issue is no bloody different.

NTJedi said:

There's LOTS of nations... either don't play the few strong nations or develop a mod. The game in its current format is what has made it successful for BOTH multiplayer and singleplayer games.

Yeah. What you've been saying all along. It's perfectly all right as long as you exclude these strong ones, which detracts from the game far more than nerfing them enough that they'd still be strong instead of ridiculously powerful.

As I recall, Dom2 experienced a resurgence after the CB mods because the most glaring issues of ridiculous lopsidedness were fixed in those. So why the hell should we not have it addressed now while Dom3 is still young?

NTJedi said:
Perhaps if you return to a good school you'll be more civilized on the forums. The rude behavior in your posts will eventually cause you to receive warnings from the moderators.

Perhaps I'm not as interested in making snide remarks from behind a false veneer of mock-politeness as you are. I'm treating you in just the manner you deserve and as you might have noticed, I've been quite the opposite of rude to others here. If I think something is a stupid idea or at least not well thought out, I'll say so directly. Just as I did when I first called bull**** on your opinion and you chose to try to put words in mouth to make it seem as if I was advocating a far different position. That goes beyond being just rude, it shows you to be a deliberately dishonest person so I don't see why I should be kissing your rear and nodding sagely to the tune of your droning.

NTJedi said:

Great then go create the mods for Vanheim and Helheim. There's no reason the entire community should accept the fate of no more very powerful nations just to satisfy your multiplayer gaming needs.

So, in addition to me busting my arse creating documentation that will enable better modding and mapmaking, I should also go and do the specific mods to address an issue that the majority here see as a problem just so that you can sit on your backside and pontificate without ever providing any kind of evidence, calculations, or even logically consistent reasoning for your positions?

Why don't you go back to playing AoW:SM and polluting the AoW Heaven forums? You've been so bent on turning this game to a micromanagement hell what with all the suggestions down the years that I'm inclined to give actual bull**** far more value than your opinion. After all, it can be used for fertilizer where as your views amount to little more than hot air most of the time.

Edi

[Kristoffer O]

Hmm, nice are we

I'm somewhat surprised about the development of this thread. Keep the discussion, but quit this [censored], please! (sorry about the language, I usually do not include feces in my posts).
Belittling someone, or their work, is not nice. Showing the entire forum that you disrespect another member is not nice either. Do that in PM's, if you have to.

You have good things to say, so do that! Not this!


Hmm, consider this a warning in disguise. I don't think I have to be more stern than this, but it is a warning none the less.

BTW, 'I'm sorry' is a nice phrase

[Kristoffer O]

Hmm, seems I got caught by some rudeness filter. I suppose that is good.

[Edi]

Very well. I think I'll take a step back and concetrate on the DB project for a while. I'll make sure that this will not happen again.

Edi

[HoneyBadger]

Thanks Kristoffer.

I'm not intending this to be a kiss-bottom post by any means, although I suppose it may seem like one. It just touches me that, for a game with only 2 principle designers, one of them is willing to take time out of his day to make an effort to keep not only the forum friendly, but a specific thread, said thread furthermore questioning that developer's judgement and published design.

I've lived too long to expect that we can all get along at every moment, or even consistently, but I hope that atleast we can remember that this just a friendly game, and that one of the purposes of a game is to make friends and build relationships. I hope that our common interest in helping to make this great game even better will in the end outweigh any enmity that differences of opinion and the weight of the past may engender.

[tombom]

It's important that you aim for some sort of balance in the standard game. Vanheim/Helheim are obviously overpowered and therefore should have some kind of nerf. I don't expect it ever to be perfectly balanced. If new people really want to have an easy nation to stomp all over the AI with, they can add a mod that does that. For someone that is new to the series and has never been a good game player, I found the Easy AI easy enough that I won my first game.

[HoneyBadger]

I think the trick to the Vans is not to give them a fight, just go around them and take out their principle provinces until you've destroyed their ability to make war. It also seems to me that a Death-Curse/amulet of vengeance strategy with some cheap sacreds would start to really irk the Vans, when you did have to fight them. Even if they win, they lose.

[Edi]

I'll echo HoneyBadger's words. I should also add that it does not seem at all fawning and that the point about the dev's approach is dead on target.

I would also like to extend an apology to NT Jedi and to the community at large for being party to fouling up this thread. I can get rather vocal at times and sometimes anger can cloud my judgment. This thread has been one of those instances when it got the better of me.

Edi

[NickW]

HoneyBadger said:
I think the trick to the Vans is not to give them a fight, just go around them and take out their principle provinces until you've destroyed their ability to make war.

That's not a workable strategy. If you send your army to the front and they send the Van army to the front, then you go around them and attack the backfield, they will have another Van army building up in the capital that you must contend with. You'll still lose your army, just a few turns later plus you'll be losing all your home provinces from the original front line Van army as they take out your "principle" provinces and ability to make war.

[thejeff]

Yeah, a raiding strategy against Vanheim doesn't sound too workable.

They have the reputation as one of the best raiders in the game. They'll be better at it than most nations. Caelum might be able to make it work.

Add to that glamour, meaning you can't find their armies to avoid and you'll need to use significant force in your raiding parties to handle running into even a few blessed Van.