Helheim Superpower!

[Gandalf Parker]

Not if you use Pans

[Maltrease]

Gandalf, I think you would really like Caelum. Since you like to avoid the big confrontations and attack where it is unexpected (Pangea tactics you use). That strategy is Caelum's best (in my opinion).

[Gandalf Parker]

I do enjoy Caelum, especially for large maps. Up to about mid-game I tend to preach a "measles" strategy. Jump over the hard indepts and spot yourself across the map in 3-province jumps. You can hit human players early in the game. And you can quickly move armies forward. But for them to hit you back they have to get thru one of yours, 2 indepts, one of yours, 2 indepts. That gives you a great advantage for building up PD and replacment armies.

Of course my answer to that strategy is my Pangaean armies since I only have to knock out one link at a time in the chain.

[alexti]

Gandalf Parker said:
Not if you use Pans

Do you want to demonstrate your strategy in duel?

[Gandalf Parker]

Whats to demonstrate? A Pan can move thru an area and "attack" it without losing its stealth. It drops maenads in that province and they attack. That makes it fairly efficient as a pain-in-the-back-provinces.

It also is great as an assassin since you dont have to keep testing the province to see whats left and if you can take it. Each turn you get an assassination, followed by a maenad attack.

The drawback of course is their cost. But for a total-stealth strategy it has a good function.

[Graeme Dice]

Gandalf Parker said:
Whats to demonstrate? A Pan can move thru an area and "attack" it without losing its stealth. It drops maenads in that province and they attack. That makes it fairly efficient as a pain-in-the-back-provinces.

Maenads without a commander will rout on the very first turn. They will have absolutely no effect unless your opponent does not purchase a single point of province defense. If that's the case, then you'd be better off using scouts, since you could capture 17.5 provinces for the same cost as a single Pan.

Actually that's not quite correct, they will have some effect. They'll raise unrest by about 2 per attack, so you have a 350 gold spy that's about one fifth as effective for ten times the price.

It also is great as an assassin since you dont have to keep testing the province to see whats left and if you can take it. Each turn you get an assassination, followed by a maenad attack.

By the time you've set up a blood economy and research to get black hearts there will be no independent provinces left to use them on. Every province will have a permanent province defense commander that is completely immune to assasination and will prevent an unlimited number of non-magical, non-mindless troops from routing.

The drawback of course is their cost. But for a total-stealth strategy it has a good function.

The other drawback, of course, is that it has absolutely no effect on a province with one province defense.

[mac5732]

I've beaten helheim with the pale ones, by using a lot of earth magic and lots and lots of Beameths from Death Majic, I found that armies with 30-50 Bemeths supported by large groups of Enliven statues with magma children and throw in some Trolls. I put minimum 25-30 Bemeths in each of my armies, usually 30-50, put on attack and put in front line. put the statutes on the flanks of the bemeths. also make sure your intrinsic defense in all your provinces have at least 25 in beginning and higher later on, my important provincies I put up to between 70-80 as Helheim loves to sneak in and attack you behind the main lines. this is just what i found out in fighting them.. good luck

[alexti]

Gandalf Parker said:
Whats to demonstrate? A Pan can move thru an area and "attack" it without losing its stealth. It drops maenads in that province and they attack. That makes it fairly efficient as a pain-in-the-back-provinces.

Demonstrate how well you can do vs Caelum with that strategy. I can play Caelum even though I'm not a Caelum expert.

You need a commander to make Maenads fight. And if Pan participate in attack, next turn you can't attack another province without exposing yourself to demolition squad.

[Gandalf Parker]

Actually thats not true. Maenads attack anywhere from two to five rounds. Definetly long enough to get a rout from the other guy in many instances. And of course estimations about how long it takes to make a Pan reasonable as an assassin depends on the game which is part of my point.

Sure lets play. 1500 provinces, indepts at 9, scattered structures and monsters across the map, AI's with alliances, 25 victory points (provinces with crowns that you have to take and hold) with 20 VP needed for a win.

[Jack_Trowell]

Do maenad start having already gone berserk ? Berserking units units usually doesn't rout even when the whole army does, it might explain ...