Will Vanheim Ever Become Spayed?

[Sandman]

BigJMoney said:
The question is, do you increase gold cost, resources cost, or both?

I'd go for a gold cost increase to begin with. Maybe to 90 gold, the same as a Knight of the Chalice. That would cut the number of Vans in play by about a fifth. If their starting fort had 30 admin, instead of 50, it would cut their starting income by about 10% (depending on scales), reducing their numbers still further.

[Taqwus]

I wonder if a mounted unit should have a higher chance to suffer the Crippled affliction when hit, given that the mounts are usually large targets, and any significant injury to the mount might slow it down for either physical or psychological reasons.

[HoneyBadger]

Horses are not the most brave animals on the planet, taken as a whole. Even a well-trained warhorse is not a stupid animal and generally won't do something it knows is a bad idea. If vans rode giant armored wolverines, then they'd be realistically a problem, not that wolverines are stupid either, they're just incredibly brave, tough, and mean. If I were a long-lived, magically powerful van, I'd get myself some kind of undead mount, or atleast a magical construct along the lines of a golem, and I definitely wouldn't use a horse design, because it's too easy for even a good rider to suffer a freak accident and fall off-even immortal Vans have necks and spines to break. Who wants to spend a thousand years in a wheelchair?
Horses are good because there's a lot of them, because they're big and strong, because they're generally friendlier than a camel, and because they can travel faster over short distances than a human. A human is a much better long distance walker. We can outwalk almost any other animal. Horses are good mounts for humans, not immortals. If I were a Van with the resources-and as an immortal, I'd eventually have the resources-I'd breed myself a line of war-elephants trained and bred for both bravery and intelligence, I'd make friends with them and take good care of them so they didn't turn on me (elephants have excellent memories and can be vindictive), and I certainly would invest in some good barding. I'm not sure if it's in the Royal Hapsburg armory or not, but somewhere there's a complete, articulate suit of steel plate elephant barding. It's very impressive.

[Shovah32]

But vans dont ride normal horses, they ride fast, magical super-fay horses!

[HoneyBadger]

Yeah, so does my poor old grandmother in hillbilly heaven. The point is that the Vans would be weaker and more vulnerable because of their choice of mount. Maybe immortal horses are super brave and super tough and eat golden grain and spit sunshine, it still is a weak spot that should be able to be exploited in the game.

[alexti]

I'm not sure I like to weaken Vans for thematic reasons. Maybe they could be made sort of unreliable? For example, if every turn there's a chance that Van will leave the army to do his godly things instead following commands of some pretender it will make overall Van strategy weaker without weakening Vans themselves. Not sure if there's such code in the game though. Gladiators leave after the battle, but with probability of 1.

[PDF]

Sandman said:

I'd go for a gold cost increase to begin with. Maybe to 90 gold, the same as a Knight of the Chalice. That would cut the number of Vans in play by about a fifth. If their starting fort had 30 admin, instead of 50, it would cut their starting income by about 10% (depending on scales), reducing their numbers still further.

Van pricing is even more ridiculous when compared to KotC, who cost 16% gold more, and ... 5 times the resources, for lower stats except the 20 prot and the "big" lance (all that is heavily factored in the 61 resource cost !).
I suggest Vans to be at least 100-120 gold, or even 150 ! Don't forget that with Dom3 high gold income you can readily have 1000+ gold/turn on turn 10-12, quite easy with those wondrous vans, plus they don't cost much upkeep thanks their sacredness...

[Sandman]

PDF said:
Van pricing is even more ridiculous when compared to KotC, who cost 16% gold more, and ... 5 times the resources, for lower stats except the 20 prot and the "big" lance (all that is heavily factored in the 61 resource cost !).
I suggest Vans to be at least 100-120 gold, or even 150 ! Don't forget that with Dom3 high gold income you can readily have 1000+ gold/turn on turn 10-12, quite easy with those wondrous vans, plus they don't cost much upkeep thanks their sacredness...

The KotC has better attack, strength, hit points and morale than the Van, although the Van is a better unit thanks to glamour, very high defence and a low resource cost.

Vanheim is a cool nation, and I'd hate to overdo things and end up with Vans being useless. Better to take things slowly.