eXperience: the 5h X

[mac5732]

1st I didn't mean in my other post that this can be done, only that I thought it could be implemented similiar to what has already been accomplished by the vets/modders in relation to new or modified races. Do to hard code changes in programing this addition would have to use what already is available, therefore we have to come up with ways that could be implemented without hard code changes. Those would have to be done by Aaron to the game itself.

Since new races/traits have been modified already another new race could be possible. As to the randomness or new abilities, we would have to ck with the modders on this as I'm not sure if we could add random factor/s like those that are being discussed.

I think that these ideas would be great additions to the game, IF they could be done without hard coding changes, otherwise it would be up to MM.

I like the ideas of the xenophobic race, I believe something similiar was discussed way back when during the time SJ was designing his P/N mod.

The only problem with having a race in an unattached system would be that it could be defended against, Unless, they could open a wormhole anywhere for any or at least a longer distance. This way you would not know or could guess where they would make their breakout. I like the idea of a race showing up from out system and attacking taking over system. I would suggest that they come in in more then 1 fleet. I would suggest several fleets attacking several different parts of the map and taking over several systems. this could be a random turn situation so you don't know when they would all come in. If only 1 fleet came in, you could mass you ships for 1 huge battle and you would have the advantage. This way your hit in more then one place, which in turn splits up your fleets and you have to decide where to make a stand, you can't defend everywhere at the same time, which would give the enemy time to invade, and begin their own builds, research etc.

just some ideas mac

[Menschenfresser]

Hmmm...
What about simply having a secondary effect of the MEE being that one race (not human) stumbles across some ultimate technology.

It would give them some of the following if not all and it could be random as to what they get so the human player doesn't know what he'll be up against when it happens. I personally would suggest having it random, but having several of these listed:
1) Unlimited resources. (wouldn't be too hard...just make a new mineral/organic/radio extractor that mines 100000 per turn....this would work if the AI upgrades facilities, which I am not sure of.)
2) Gigantic hull designs.
3) These super components and hull cost virtually nothing, so they can build 50 in no time.
4) Super mega death weapons. (Don't know exactly what this would be.
5) A thick small shield tech that makes fighters a greater problem to erradicate.
6) A combat and defense component making their ships extremely hard to hit.
7) Space yards which can construct 10000 resources in a turn.
....ad nauseum......

I am not completely sure it is possible to mod in more MEE like events, but if that is possible then the rest certainly is. It would only take some serious detail changes to the AI design files so they actually use the new tech in no matter what form it comes in.

I see it may be impossible to radomize the actual rewards for the AI or who it goes to, but with careful consideration what is chosen to implement could be balanced.

Imagine having gone through a WP several turns ago and just seeing the remnants of an empire you have been crushing for a decade, when all of a sudden, a terror fleet of yours reenters the AI's system on a routine misson of death and solar rape, and there, hovering over a star, are 75 warships weighing in at 2500k a piece, which the AI can spit out at the rate of one every turn or two.

And think then about the unlimited resource addition. Say the empire which has gained this tech is on the other end of the galaxy. All the other AI empires they are allied with in at least a tech swap will suddenly have near unlimited resources through trade. Furthertheless, destroying their planets won't do much to hinder their mining ability...needing only two of each facility to produce what your spralling empire is producing.

Or there could even be multiple levels of MEE tech.

Although all this sounds like there would definitely be hard coding involved.

[mac5732]

I read Capnq's post in history thread, Random factor is a hardcode change. So.. have to come up with something else, how about if it is possible to have a computer player be set to enter the game upon a specific game turn or after a specific event happens, etc, or would this to fall into the random factor? this would take something away from the idea but maybe its something to be looked at and worked off of. Something like AI player X enters on game turn 500 or player x enters after 70% of planets or certqain types of planets are populated??????

just some ideas mac

just some ideas mac

[mac5732]

Ship size would be possible I would think under current system. We alread have a base-ship, which in non-modded original Version the Ai never uses. How about if we just upgrade the current basehip to where that particular AI player starts with it, lower the cost for building, maintenance, increase capacity, defense, etc. They could start with both DN's and Upgraded base ships, probably some of the other smaller types and ftrs as well, as for weapons, couldn't we take some of the current ones and increase their ranges, damage,

Basically, what I mean is, couldn't we just take what we have and modify, (ships, weapons, etc) for only that particular race? We could even give them new names etc, This would be the only race that would have these capabilities, therefore, we could still use current weapons, tech against them, but they would be bigger, stronger and do more damage when they hit or attack but not undefeatable.

If this is all possible, then they hardest part would be as to how this race would enter into the game. Random factors as long as it needs to be hard coded is out, therefore......??

just some ideas mac

[Spyder]

I thought we were talking about the evolution of the game to include the 5th X. I am specifically targetting Space Empires V ideas

The idea is to provide some extra spice to the game at the point where it seems to lag. In the case of SEIV, it lags when you reach MEE. So, MEE status is an event that can be used to trigger something that adds spice to a game that has begun to lag. In addition, the event needs variety or it can be defended against. For instance, in the Civil War Event, the player would know that inside the next xxx turns, half of his empire would secede, he could adjust production, storage, etc so that he would be able to choose an optimum set of planets to retain. If the player knew that Barbarian Hordes were imminent, he could stockpile partially built ships and release them when the Hordes landed. However, if he knew one of those were going to hit, but not when or which...then, it'd be much more difficult prepare for.

The idea is that its a random calamity that is potentially disasterous and that is targetted at the MEE Empire. This could actually save the PLAYER if one of the AI's got way ahead of him.

The Barbarian Hordes is a particularly good idea because: 1) It will eventually run out of ships and end the disaster...usually before wiping anyone out; 2) While it starts in the middle of the MEE Empire, it doesn't necessarily have to stay there; 3) It is not unsurpassable technologically and therefore can be beaten back.

The Civil War idea could be a bad idea unless you gave him a chance to prevent it from happening. Perhaps you could send a message to him saying "You have reached MEE status. Your Empire is in unrest. You must quell the unrest or suffer a Civil War." Quelling the unrest would require ships in every system....say a number equal to the number of colonized planets & mooons. You would have a time period to achieve this and if you failed, then you would lose half of the systems (you'd get to choose which ones you get to keep) that did not have the appropriate number of ships in orbit. If you DID achieve the goal, then you'd have to maintain this navy in each system you occupied, or go into a flux state where you have so many turns to cover the unrest.

[Phoenix-D]

If you're willing to do pre-game set up, there is a way to make "disasters", races entering via newly opened WPs, and such.

Take one race, create a new racial tech. Give this tech extremely overpowered, cheap components, and impenitrable cloaking. Give it a 1 MP engine.

Now, you set things up by creating the game and "idling" all the other empires while the dummy empire's ships are moved in position. What you need to do is decided when you want your "even" to occur; the event can be anything a standard empire can accomplish. Move the dummy ships that number of spaces away from the target, and give them orders.

Once everything is in place, nuke the dummy's colonies. The ships will contiue on their merry way and fire your events. This works best with exploding stars..

Phoenix-D

[jimbob]

Cool,

Spyder, it's good to see someone else has played Civ (the board game). The barbarian hordes idea is a great one, I'd love to see that happen as a MEE random event.
Is it possible to have "first place player has XX times more points than second place player" as a trigger for the release of the hordes? Is it possible to set up the hordes so that they only attack the first place player (regardless of who it ends up being?)

The civil war ideas are good. While a warning may be good to give the player a chance to get ships back to his home systems, I think that he/she should lose _all_ planets that they didn't get ships back to in time. It reminds me of the Babalonian seige of Jerusalem, which lifted suddenly because the army had to return home to quell rebellions. If memory serves, I don't think they got back in time either!

[ 30 November 2001: Message edited by: jimbob ]