Why Don't My Mages Cast the Spells I Tell Them To?

Gandalf Parker · #1 December 25th, 2006, 07:50 PM

You are a God (in training).
You give them suggestions. If they dont follow them, then kill them.

Actually thats what it amounts to. Your instructions can be overridden if they
A) cant see who you wanted them to attack
B) seem to know that the enemy is fairly resistant
C) dont have the necessary ingredients (gems/slaves)
D) feel that would be otherwise wasteful

They dont always make GOOD decisions but you should check things like that first. Did you block their view with other troops, or forget to give them gems?

Also, unfortunetly, they might decide that the spell you had them do was not a very good idea but that doesnt mean they will pick a better one. They seem to go from "not too good" and drop to the bottom of their list which means sometimes they seem pretty stupid.

QXel · #2 December 26th, 2006, 08:48 AM

Yes, and I like not to have a total (and not 'realistic', but maybe the word here doesn't mean anything ... ;o) control of my troups in a computer game.
But, I don't like to see them make some pretty stupid actions ! (I know, I know, it's very hard to code AI, and I'm not saying that the work is not good, believe me ! I LOVE this game and your work !!! In fact, I had rarely seen a game as good and addictive as yours. Really. But, I always play against the AI because I don't have Internet at home, so, sometimes, it's just a bit frustrating ... But I'll make it ;o).

Some examples (unfortunatly, I had experimented these ...) :
- have your pretender F7 D4 casting over and over Raise Skeletons and NOT Pillar of Fire or Cloud ou Fire or Whatever-wich-strike-hard-and-destroy-the-enemy !!! (fatigue isn't being a problem in this case)
[in fact, and even in Dom2, the IA LOVE casting Raise skeletons .... Not Shadow Blast, not Fear Cloud, not anything BUT Raise skeletons ...]
- have a squad of artillery Mage casting all their overpowered spells on the same enemy groups of pityfull Militia while their heavy infantry cut my troops into pieces on one side and their archers obliterate them on the other side ... (range isn't a problem, as from the first example)
- have the enemy (yes, good for me, but a bit disapointing ...) casting Fire Fly, Flare or anything from Fire Magic onto my full-fire-immune Abysia army ...
- a bit different : had a commander with 'Stay behind troops' makes suddenly a suicide attack on heavy cavalry units, just for fun, during an uncertain battle ...

These are very extreme examples, but sometimes, I wish I could have the possibility of killing them right now, as you suggested !!! :^DDD

Next time : in front of the army 'attack nearest' !!!

P.S : I'm not an English speaker, so, excuse my mistakes.

Endoperez · #3 December 26th, 2006, 09:08 AM

Quote:

QXel said:
- have your pretender F7 D4 casting over and over Raise Skeletons and NOT Pillar of Fire or Cloud ou Fire or Whatever-wich-strike-hard-and-destroy-the-enemy !!! (fatigue isn't being a problem in this case)
[in fact, and even in Dom2, the IA LOVE casting Raise skeletons .... Not Shadow Blast, not Fear Cloud, not anything BUT Raise skeletons ...]
- have a squad of artillery Mage casting all their overpowered spells on the same enemy groups of pityfull Militia while their heavy infantry cut my troops into pieces on one side and their archers obliterate them on the other side ... (range isn't a problem, as from the first example)
- have the enemy (yes, good for me, but a bit disapointing ...) casting Fire Fly, Flare or anything from Fire Magic onto my full-fire-immune Abysia army ...
- a bit different : had a commander with 'Stay behind troops' makes suddenly a suicide attack on heavy cavalry units, just for fun, during an uncertain battle ...

Raise Skeleton etc aren't good when they aren't massed. The fact that AI prefers to cast them makes it possible for some massed skeleton summons, which can work very well, but is annoying in cases like this. Perhaps mages should prefer to cast spells of their highest path(s)?

Mages casting spells at militia instead of HI or archers is probably due to the fact that targeting HI might kill your own troops, and targeting archers could miss them completely. It could also be due to the fact that militia are easier to kill than HI (no armor) or archers (farther away).

Fire spells won't be cast at totally fire-immune army. Are you sure that there were no Barkskin spells or effects affecting your units (it causes fire resistance to be lowered)?

Stay Behind Troops is a bit strange. In some cases, if the command in question doesn't have a bow and can't cast spells, he will move forward but never past (his own?) troops.

QXel · #4 December 26th, 2006, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Endoperez said:

Raise Skeleton etc aren't good when they aren't massed. The fact that AI prefers to cast them makes it possible for some massed skeleton summons, which can work very well, but is annoying in cases like this. Perhaps mages should prefer to cast spells of their highest path(s)?

Mages casting spells at militia instead of HI or archers is probably due to the fact that targeting HI might kill your own troops, and targeting archers could miss them completely. It could also be due to the fact that militia are easier to kill than HI (no armor) or archers (farther away).

Fire spells won't be cast at totally fire-immune army. Are you sure that there were no Barkskin spells or effects affecting your units (it causes fire resistance to be lowered)?

Stay Behind Troops is a bit strange. In some cases, if the command in question doesn't have a bow and can't cast spells, he will move forward but never past (his own?) troops.

1-I agree with you for the Raise skeleton spell ... Having ONE mage cast it after the 5th turn is pretty useless, and stupid ... Bah.

2-Yep, I guess so. But 4 Falling Fire onto 10 Militias while 20 HI or 10 HC chop my poor lava warriors ... Well, I don't comment any further, I'll be rude ...
Edit : It's doesn't make much sense anyway, because, if I remember well, Falling fire damage is armor piercing. So, casting it on a heavily armored unit isn't a so bad idea.

3-Yep, I'm totally sure. Full Fireproff army, and enemy casters fireflare/fly me ... Very strange, indeed.

4-As you say, usually ... Well, being honest, this rarely happen. But when it happens, ARRGH !

Gandalf Parker · #5 December 26th, 2006, 02:09 PM

SOME instances (rarely) IF all of the possible reasons have been examined... some of them do stand being zippedup and sent to illwinter. Sometimes a unit hasnt been flagged as immune in the proper place or some other bit hasnt been set. But in general I would leave that option to the more advanced players since there are many in-game reasons that can be part of the action.

The basic answer for new players is that as-far-as-I-understand your pieces are not meant to blindly follow your instructions.

Kydorias · #6 December 26th, 2006, 07:04 PM

My most annoying instance was with a Sea Troll Warrior/Mage scripted with "Quicken Self", "Water Shield", and "Attack Closest". Said Troll decides he also needs a "Breath of Winter" buff and then proceeds to wade into battle amongst my squad of 40+ Ichtyid Warriors, freezing half of them to death.

Needless to say, all future battles had this moron waaayy out on the flank away from friendly troops.

Gandalf Parker · #7 December 26th, 2006, 07:45 PM

Sometimes I think that the RPGers have an advantage in Dominions over the strict strategy-game people. Maybe not in winning, but in our stress levels. When something happens in the game that I dont like I role-play it out in some sort of logic and continue on.

incorrect battle reports:
"Stupid followers are too afraid of me to report correctly"

mage wont follow script:
"I keep that idiot on a far flank or use him to test province defenses"

troops get inflictions:
"these guys have earned a retirement adding to the PD of this province now that Ive recruited replacements for them

I do a pretty good storyline AAR in my head. If only I wasnt so lazy to type it out.

Gandalf Parker

curtadams · #8 December 27th, 2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

QXel said:
2-Yep, I guess so. But 4 Falling Fire onto 10 Militias while 20 HI or 10 HC chop my poor lava warriors ... Well, I don't comment any further, I'll be rude ...
Edit : It's doesn't make much sense anyway, because, if I remember well, Falling fire damage is armor piercing. So, casting it on a heavily armored unit isn't a so bad idea.

My impression is that the AI prefers casting its spells where they will to the most enemy damage/least friendly damage, NOT where they will help the most. My mages prefer to blast militia rather than heavy cavalry even when the cavalry will be a grave danger and the militia will be irrelevant. I suspect it just sees that firing at the militia will cause much more damage (which it will, of course) and so it ignores the cavalry.

Edi · #9 December 27th, 2006, 10:57 AM

It also depends on what magic is available to them. If all you have is flying shards or fire darts, they'll use it on the militia, because then there is at least some chance of actually doing damage, whereas heavy cavalry is virtually immune to those spells (heavy armor + shield), but if you have a fire mage who can use fireball or flare, those heavy cavalry will start suffering rather immediately.

Edi