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  #1  
Old December 28th, 2006, 06:41 AM
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Marcello Marcello is offline
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Default Re: Red Army = most effective force !

For what is worth I got the impression that the soviets took river crossing very seriously.All the APCs,IFVs and armored cars that could be made amphibious were so, even at the expense of others characteristics like armor protection.The tanks were capable of deep fording, even with all the limitations and the risks of such practice.Dedicated ambhibious tanks for establishing bridgeheads.Fast deployement GSP ferry to make tanks cross rivers when fording was was not an option.PTS-M and similar vehicles to ferry artillery, trucks and large amounts of foot infantry etc.
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Old December 28th, 2006, 08:33 AM

Marek_Tucan Marek_Tucan is offline
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Default Re: Red Army = most effective force !

The river crossing aspect is partly true but IRL it was being viewed as "not much practical" IRL... BMP's had sometimes a disturbing tendencies to sink and with deep fording I don't know whether our armz ever rained with combat schnorkels due to the risk of having no escape route while underwater (combat schnorkel wasn't passable for the crew).
Also there aren't so manz river banks suitable for deep fording/amphib crossing - it's about the same as with landing beaches on the sea coast.Plus of course trucks etc. would still need bridges.
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Old December 28th, 2006, 09:13 AM
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Default Re: Red Army = most effective force !

Of course deep fording was rather unhealthy and while the others vehicles were amphibious some were just barely so.
I suspect that there was an underlying attitude along the lines "even if few percent are lost but the rest get through is worth it" but I cannot prove it. The banks will need preparation and only a few places will be suitable.
The point however is that just blowing up a couple of bridges in front of them will not be a show stopper. Ultimately of course it will come down to engineers bridging assets.
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Old December 28th, 2006, 09:19 AM
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Default Re: Red Army = most effective force !

Quote:
The point however is that just blowing up a couple of bridges in front of them will not be a show stopper.
exactly,

Quote:
Anyway, all too glad the Cold War didn't break into Hot one as it would be for sure bloody for both sides.
yes, who knows where even a conventional conflict could have escalated to.
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Old December 28th, 2006, 09:34 AM

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Default Re: Red Army = most effective force !

Funny thing is that nobody didnīt start a war. If Red Army had such huge advantages, itīs kind of interesting that they didnīt even try to pressure the West more politically or something like that. Maybe the war wouldnīt be worth it anyhow, so the Soviet Union building policy of arms went to total waste, hence the collapse of the Soviet empire. They lost the cold war, so it doesnīt matter anymore what their equipment was like in 1980.

And doesnīt the game represent them as quite potent combat vehicles, considering the debate going on about their true quality?
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Old December 28th, 2006, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: Red Army = most effective force !

"Funny thing is that nobody didnīt start a war. If Red Army had such huge advantages, itīs kind of interesting that they didnīt even try to pressure the West more politically or something like that."

I could ask a very similar question.Why didn't the US nuke the USSR in the late 50's-beginning of the 60's, when they enjoyed overwhelming nuclear advantage? Why didn't they even try to pressure the USSR more?
Which brings us to the answer to your question: nukes make people a bit more cautious.

"And doesnīt the game represent them as quite potent combat vehicles, considering the debate going on about their true quality?"

There is some fudge factor inherent to how ERA is handled the game.The T-64/T-72/T-80 have also peculiar armor schemes that is difficult to accurately represent.
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Old December 28th, 2006, 11:31 AM

pdoktar pdoktar is offline
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Default Re: Red Army = most effective force !

Yes, the game engine has itīs limitations, particularly with ERA and especially Kontakt-5 which is directly calculated to the armor values of say, T-72BM etc. Still, comparing to similar weastern units, like M1 and Leo2, T-80 and T-72 fares quite well, so in game terms there is no gap between the quality of western and eastern armor.

And thinking of nukes, there were many proxywars between the Soviet Union and US, but nukes were not used, so you can say that the whole buildup in Europe was indifferent, as nukes would be involved there anyway. Maybe conventional war couldnīt be fought in Europe altogether, so it didnīt anymore matter, who had the best conventional forces there.
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