Se IV gold

Mudshark · #1 December 4th, 2001, 04:33 AM

I would like to first state that I have purchased the gold Version. I personaly feel that supporting small game houses is important.

I can however understand why so many owners of SE IV feel slighted, both TCP/IP and drones were promised to be included in SE IV, not just gold! From a legal standpoint this is a justified case. However from a cost versus hours played, I would think that supporting this fine product is less than a penny per hour. If any of you are looking for a class action lawsuit,please excuse me!!

Richard · #2 December 4th, 2001, 04:39 AM

Well I have to disagree with you. TCP/IP and drones were never promised features or on our product pages or press releases to make folks want to buy the game for those features.

Yes we have always wanted to add those and have been working on them but we never said they would be in for sure at any point.

I mean we could have been a large publisher and never communicated with the community because of such issues, but we believe in being honest with our customers and letting them know we are working on those features.

In the end the only way to get those to folks at a reasonable price is what happenned today.

Aristoi · #3 December 4th, 2001, 05:04 AM

After looking over the GOLD edition features, I frankly think that the only reason to buy it (assuming you already own it) would be to support Aaron and due to the future lack of support for SEIV "Normal".

Yes, I realize there are new features that some people would be willing to buy, but I personally don't find them compelling enough. And I love SEIV!

I also think it is unfortunate that there will be no future support for the normal Version. It smacks of abandonment.

As for drones and TCP/IP, whether it was promised or just implied (which I don't really know), it's splitting hairs. A lot of people thought that it would be put in at some point. Of if not, at least it would be in SE5, and paying more money for that would be acceptable. To put it into SEIV, though, and charge for it... I can certainly understand the frustration that it creates among some players.

As for breaking up the CD to return for a rebate, that's just daft. If someone is going to go to the time to fake a cover so that it fools the Shrapnel people, they earned the $15 bucks.

Mudshark · #4 December 4th, 2001, 05:10 AM

Richard, by posting your reply this quickly, you have proven my point. You guys are great!! I do think that you will cave in and and put tcp/ip and drones into a patch, I think that an e-mail auto update would work very well for us gold members! I hate looking thru the furoms for the latest!!!

Richard · #5 December 4th, 2001, 05:17 AM

Actually you can just send in the whole CD if you wish.

And no it isn't splitting hairs, I don't think you understand what I am saying here. I mean as a publisher we can just button everything up and not discuss anything, I could stop posting the internal (and possibly damaging) history reports prior to release of patches, or stop telling you guys what we are trying to get accomploished, like most big publisher do. However we try to avoid that and do things straight with you guys. If you have dealt with a large publisher you will know what I mean immediatelty and how closely they horde info on their games for some reasons just like this.

And that's the issue there, if we had just kept our development plans for drones and TCP/IP to ourselves no one would be craving them now, but that also woudl be contrary to how we work.

However I must admit if this is how folks are going to rewards such honesty maybe we should just keep new developments to ourselves until thy are done.

The game is not being abandonded. Simply put we have issued 7 patches for over a year now that not only fix bugs but also ADD features, name me a major publisher/developer who does this kind of support. Some do, but they are few and far between.

We continue to test the game up to this point, I have NEVR been involved with a publisher who does QA on a game after a year.

The game in it's current state is a very stable and strong 4X space game, probably the best in the genre.

The update takes that solid game and adds most of the things that have been requested by the fans over the Last year or so and implement them at a price that is fair for an add-on (and in many cases most add-ons are simply just scenario packs with maybe some new art added).

But I also want to be frank about this also. With the economy going the way it is SE4 Gold needs to be a success in order for Malfador to stay in business, period. Sales for SE4 have been nice but after 9/11/01 all of our sales began to dip as folks spent less money. For a small shop like Malfador that means that without additional income there won't be an SE4 Gold or and SE5, and in that case the features that SE4 adds would be gone forever.

You may feel slighted, and I understand that, but unfourtanetly we both have to pay the bills and to support an older game that has drastically reduced sales we need to be able to pay the bills and keep the servers running.

Personally I have seen what most major publishers consider a "Gold" Version and to be honest I think we meet and beat the industry standards for such a game.

Hope this put some fresh perspective on this...

Phoenix-D · #6 December 4th, 2001, 05:21 AM

"I also think it is unfortunate that there will be no future support for the normal Version. It smacks of abandonment."

Richard's got a point on this one. Very few games get any kind of support at this point in their life cycle; few even get the level SE4 has gotten.

Phoenix-D

apache · #7 December 4th, 2001, 05:27 AM

I do share some of these feelings. It does kinda feel like a mild form of extortion. But then I put this in perspective. I got the game a few months after it came out, christmas time Last year, I have been playing it ever since then, though not every day, while damn near every other game I had at the time or even got later has fallen by the wayside.
Also, its been pretty much a year since I assume the bulk of the sales have occured, so Aaron's income from this game is probably very low right now. He and shrapnel already provide better support for this game than any other big companies for their games, and there is no reason not to expect him to keep supporting the gold Version for at least another 6 months, probably another year. At that time we will probably see SE5 appear. This game is vastly improved from what it was a year ago. So many bugs squashed, so many features added. It seriously is a different game.
Honestly, we really can't expect them to keep giving support and adding new features indefinitely. Think of it as an expansion pack. I think the order form said you get $5 bucks off for an early preorder, and then if you get the $15 rebate, its not that bad.

Mudshark · #8 December 4th, 2001, 05:40 AM

I'm sorry that I opened this can of worms, but this is what this forum was going to! tough qustions, and very frank answers! I hope this ends this tread. This is a great game that is supported by many Modders. May this game continue to be this way!!!!

Aristoi · #9 December 4th, 2001, 06:57 AM

I'd like to say that bar none, Shrapnel Games is the best publisher I have ever known support wise. For me to complain of being abandoned after a year of patches was out of line. And you're 100% right about the typical "GOLD" Versions from the major houses. It is usually a new cover and little more.

I don't feel slighted in the least. Any way you figure it, I got my money's worth a long time ago. Another 40 bucks can't even put a minor dent in the value I've gotten.

I guess what I was driving at is apache mentioned: "It does kinda feel like a mild form of extortion."

I basically do have to buy it, or I'll never be able to read the forums again, what with all the Posts on exciting new features.

You're doing a great job, Richard. I was not trying to make you feel unapreciated. For that I am completely apologetic to you personally.

That said, was I the only one who felt a flutter when I read Richard mention the possibility of no SE5? Perish the thought! Even if we had to go back to the graphics style of SE3, as long as the gameplay was there, I for one would never complain.

dumbluck · #10 December 4th, 2001, 12:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Richard:
And that's the issue there, if we had just kept our development plans for drones and TCP/IP to ourselves no one would be craving them now, but that also woudl be contrary to how we work.

However I must admit if this is how folks are going to rewards such honesty maybe we should just keep new developments to ourselves until thy are done.

Stop it, richard, you're scaring me!!!

*dumbluck cowers in the corner, terrified by the mere thought of such a horrific coarse of events*

quote:
Personally I have seen what most major publishers consider a "Gold" Version and to be honest I think we meet and beat the industry standards for such a game.

Heh. I think you accomplished THAT somewhere around Version 1.00 ....