Warsaw Pact and TI

Marek_Tucan · #1 January 13th, 2007, 07:22 PM

AFAIK the TI's cannot pass through a large field of smoke in SP as well (IIRC 3 hexes of smoke block TI's, right? Don't have game installed right now).

As for USSR, Not even all of the T-90's got equipped with TI's in the 1990's, so I guess it was rather scarce - TI systems were already used for measurements etc. by 1980's in Czechoslovakia but these were scientific/industrial ones, not fit for battlefield service (either by resolution or reliability or ruggedness).
First TI-equipped vehicle Czechoslovakia got was T-72M4CZ.

DRG · #2 January 13th, 2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Marek_Tucan said:
AFAIK the TI's cannot pass through a large field of smoke in SP as well (IIRC 3 hexes of smoke block TI's, right? Don't have game installed right now).

It varies by how dense the game rates the smoke as. It's not a carved in stone "three hexes" but yes, enough smoke will block LOS to TI equipted tanks and if it's thick enough three or so will do it.

If the smoke barrage is patchy with some thick and some thin areas then the TI vision through it will be patchy as well with some areas obsured and some not.

Don

Smersh · #3 January 13th, 2007, 11:22 PM

well, then I was wrong about the TI sights. I made that statement based on my experiance with them and not on any tests,apparantly I was wrong, and they can be blocked.

I did not mean for it to sound like an assignment, I added it to my post just for some feed-back about it.

BaronvonBeer · #4 January 14th, 2007, 05:57 AM

According to Jane's, and KMDB (the manufacturer of the Buran seriesTI systems, supposedly the first thermal sight installed on a Russian tank) the T-80UM was the first such equipped model (with the Buran), which entered service, in '91/92. Before that the TPN-4(e?) Image Intensification was in use. Of course, that is only MBTs....

A good "Definitive" starting point might be this tool, which no bookshelf should be without.

Smersh · #5 January 14th, 2007, 06:44 AM

IR sights where also retro-fitted to T-80Bs and T-80Us

Marcello · #6 January 14th, 2007, 07:24 AM

"M-84, from Yugoslavia had TI. That was a T72 with a new engine and other tweaks. So this would give a point where the USSR is not using TI, as the Yugoslavians had to add it specifically."

AFAIK the M84 used the DNNS-2 gunner sight.This was a good image intensifier but not a thermal sight.

PlasmaKrab · #7 January 14th, 2007, 11:48 AM

As far as I know and am able to find right now, the first TI tank sights used on Russian tanks were made by Peleng (now as PO1-KO1 model) from Thomson (now Thales) Catherine-FC-series IR cameras and offered as an option on the T-90. That means no TI sights at all before

From what I used to hear at the time, the Catherine was selected because Russian/FSU makers were unable to come up with equivalent TI optics. I admit that this may be Thomson bragging or post-cold-war propaganda, but the fact that the Catherine version itself posed so many problems to the Indians and that they couldn't replace them with some Russian version substantiates that claim.

I'm not sure when the first Catherines were delivered, but for obvious political reasons I'd say not before 1990. It was a highlight of the export T-90 from the start, but actually the baseline T-90 uses the Buran AIR/LLTV derivate of the old TPN series.
On the other hand, the Indian Army is the only certified customer of the TI-equipped version, so I don't even know if Russia has ever used it.

So I'd place a conservative estimate at 1999 for Russia, and 1989-90 as the most optimistic date (first T-90 service date anyway), in small quantities. Retrofitted T-80UM(1) in 1995-97.
And of course no TI capability at all before 1990, same thing for non-Soviet ex-WP upgrades (PT-91, Moderna...) which also used foreign-supplied optics. If someone can prove otherwise, I'd like to know.