WinSPMBTver3.0 Info

DRG · #1 January 19th, 2007, 09:00 PM

I have already stated that there has not been any wholesale downgrading of the Russian/WP etc OOB's. The main focus was to correct the TI given to Hinds. In the Hungarian OOB that was as early as 1978 which actually predated when the Russian Hinds were getting it. Currently, for those of you who are actually willing to listen, T1... real thermal imaging not radar, starts appearing in the Russian OOB in 1990 which is reasonable give the facts as they are known.( anyone can argue that a Helo with IR gear really had TI gear and not offer proof but that doesn't make it correct ) The specialty OP vehicles that use the GSR little Fred and Tall Mike start in the mid 70's. Thost vehicles are rated at 40 or above which sets the flag to indicate "TI/GSR" both do essentially the same job at this scale so one is interchangeable with the other. A "40" in vision could be TI or GSR, it doesn't matter.

( and I added the SNAR-10 which nobody else seems to have noticed was missing from the Russian OOB and quite a few other OOB's as well which is rated at a "50" vision which puts a Russian player at a distict advantage in the mid 70's to early 80's...... yeah.... we're just crapping all over the Russian player with the V3 release

)

Some people ( one in particular ) have expressed concerns ( both rationally and otherwise ) that this was done to create a deliberate imbalance in the game to favour the "western" side. This, is patent, utter nonsense but, with some, once an idea takes hold they simply will not listen. Those people will be removed from this forum becasue, as in Kuklinovsky case, he is spouting utter nonsense "They will be albe to smash Soviets like Iraqis with pleasure and everything will be fine" is pure fantasy and it really is sad when people let fantasy rule their thoughts.

The OOB's have not been tweaked to deliberately weaken or strengthen either "side" we have, as always, strived to be fair and impartial in our work on the OOB's. Errors do creep in but with a database this size and much of the information still classified it's to be expected. In this case we corrected an error that had existed almost from the first release of SPMBT and the number of units actually changed is miniscule in relation to the actual number of units for all nations in the game. We've added dual charge HEAT ammo to the game which is almost exclusively a "Russian" ( and their arms customers )addition and that's been totally forgotten.( or just simply ignored )

This entire TI issue was blown way out of proportion for reasons unknown. I explained a number of times that this was not a massive change to the game and it's not.

Don

Kuklinovsky · #2 January 19th, 2007, 09:13 PM

If much of information is still classified I can do a realistic assumption that placing TIs on selected Soviet Hinds and tanks is also keep secret up to now! So, all profies are free to set Soviet tanks visual at 50 points starting from, say 1981 or 1984, and who can tell this is impossible??? Soviets were well known for their "maskirovka"!

Additionally I demand smoke grenades and projectiles on Soviet side which can completely block Western TIs! Such aerosols have been existing not only in US arsenal from way back!

Kuklinovsky · #3 January 19th, 2007, 10:10 PM

Yes, I have found another banana oil here!

"A 40 in vision could be TI or GSR, it doesn't matter."

Of course, it DOES matter simply because GSR is far more resistant for darkness, dust, fog, smoke, aerosols and other weather and battlefield conditions than any TI!

As an esteemed WinSPMBT forum's professional man I can't agree to give me the shaft! It is very rudely!

Uncle_Joe · #4 January 19th, 2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Some people ( one in particular ) have expressed concerns ( both rationally and otherwise ) that this was done to create a deliberate imbalance in the game to favour the "western" side. This, is patent, utter nonsense but, with some, once an idea takes hold they simply will not listen.

This same type of nonsensical crap is also present in most other military-style game forums. The Axis and Allies Minis boards are full of people openly accusing WotC of purposely making the US 'better' to cater to the US buyers. And its a load of complete BS.

So, IMO, its best to simply ignore these people who must take their hatred of all things US in the modern world and apply it even to their hobbies.

Djuice · #5 January 20th, 2007, 03:54 AM

Regarding the multi-spectral obstruction capability of aerosols/smokes, only the T-80UK (Command Variant) was equiped with it in the USSR. No other tanks had them.

Djuice · #6 January 20th, 2007, 03:58 AM

First Soviet (well, Russian by that time) tank to mount TI was T-80U(M) in 1992. First soviet armored vehicle to mount TI was PRP-4 in 1984. First tank to mouint it in real series is T-90 (not the initial 1993. version).

DRG · #7 January 20th, 2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Djuice said:
First Soviet (well, Russian by that time) tank to mount TI was T-80U(M) in 1992. First soviet armored vehicle to mount TI was PRP-4 in 1984. First tank to mouint it in real series is T-90 (not the initial 1993. version).

Which is very close to what we have in the game now but the line is blurred becasue, with this game, Vision over 40 could be either TI OR GSR and treats both equally ( like it or not that's the way the game works ) and we don't model every last version of the AOP GSR vehicles. Starting in 1975, with the introduction of the SNAR there are Russian GSR AOP vehicles with a vision rating of at least 50 which matches the introduction of the Small Fred/ Tall Mike type GSR's to the Russian inventory

Don

Kuklinovsky · #8 January 20th, 2007, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Djuice said:
First Soviet (well, Russian by that time) tank to mount TI was T-80U(M) in 1992. First soviet armored vehicle to mount TI was PRP-4 in 1984. First tank to mouint it in real series is T-90 (not the initial 1993. version).

Really 1984??? 1984???

Do you have any strong proof on that??? If not, forum experts from "Tucano and Co." will give you an earful as a daft troll, buddy!

Anyway all Soviet recon vehicles are malformed in current OOB:

-ARCV-2 - IOC: 1976-1980, vision: 20
-ARCV-2 - IOC: 1981-2004, vision: 30
-PRP-2 - IOC: 1976-1995, vision: 40
-PRP-3 Val - IOC: 1986-2020, vision: 50
-PRP-4 - lack!
-PRP-4MU - IOC: 2002-2020, vision: 60

What a schlock!

DRG · #9 January 20th, 2007, 01:10 PM

All of this was reviewed and corrected long before you started your little crusade. I JUST finished saying that starting in 1975 in the new OOB's the Russian OOB contains AOP vehicles with 50 vision

Strange, I though you had said your farewells a few emails back. Apparently you are not a man of your word.

Don

Kuklinovsky · #10 January 20th, 2007, 01:48 PM

Very interesting! I am very curious about what Soviet AOP model will possess this revolutionary radar from 1975???

PS. Yes, I have already intended to go away but this level of abysmal ignorance shocked me a I had to retort on it in my several last posts! But now I will wait for this "wonderful" version 3.0 upgrade to see what you mess in the game. Then I will come back here with my hot expert analysis of your hack-work!