defending against mutiny's?

gwichman · #1 December 9th, 2001, 07:02 AM

My enemy has an intel level of about 30k. I heave a measily 6k. I've got up to Intel 2 already but he just started using mutiny against my good ships. Every other turn he steals one. How do i stop this? and what are my chances of stopping it?

Suicide Junkie · #2 December 9th, 2001, 07:05 AM

Counter intel, but you're massively outgunned there. You could also send your ships to glass his intel worlds, thus stemming the tide.
Try and talk your neighbours into supporting you, too.

gwichman · #3 December 9th, 2001, 07:12 AM

so i should increase my own intel then i take it.. which counter intel should i use? i have counter intel 1, 2, and 3.. 3 takes 6.1 years to complete. am i only protected when it "completes"? or is it just as good to do counter intel 1? i'm not really clear how counter intel works nor which one to go with

MegaTrain · #4 December 9th, 2001, 07:26 AM

Counter intel only works while it is in PROGRESS, not once it gets finished. So if you haven't started one, START IT NOW. It's only when its FINISHED that it doesn't do any more good. When the first one finishes, start another.

I would assume just start on the highest level of counter-intel you have, and keep building more intelligence centers to increase your intel points.

I couldn't tell you exactly how counter-intel works, or what's the difference between counter-intel 1, 2 and 3, or how many of what level of enemy projects it will defend you against (I don't know if anybody's figured it out yet

), but that's your best shot.

Also, if you have (or create) a partnership treaty with an ally, they will share a portion of their intel points in addition to sharing research and resources.

Good luck, and I also like the idea of waltzing into their systems to blow them away for stealing your ships!

[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: MegaTrain ]

Suicide Junkie · #5 December 9th, 2001, 07:36 AM

quote:
Counter intel only works while it is in PROGRESS, not once it gets finished. So if you haven't started one, START IT NOW. It's only when its FINISHED that it doesn't do any more good. When the first one finishes, start another.

Better yet, when it is one turn from completion, move it to the bottom of the queue, and DONT complete it. It will remain there and protect you.

PS: It will appear that your counter-intel is not being worked on: this is because the points you add each turn are being drained off to defend your empire. Unless you have a higher intel output, your counter-intel projects will remain pegged at zero, and block some fraction of the incoming projects.

Phoenix-D · #6 December 9th, 2001, 07:52 AM

quote:
I couldn't tell you exactly how counter-intel works, or what's the difference between counter-intel 1, 2 and 3, or how many of what level of enemy projects it will defend you against

As far as I can tell, the difference is the higher-level counter intelligence stores more points, allowing you to keep to running longer and defend against high-value ops like PPP.

Phoenix-D

Beck · #7 December 9th, 2001, 04:47 PM

Also I think counter-intel are more effective at the higher levels even accounting for the higher points needed to complete and hence the greater protection. There is a line indicating effect amount for each of the counter-intel projects and the number corresponds to the level indicating that a level 3 (effect amount=3) project is three times more effective than a level 1 (effect amount=1).

Baron Munchausen · #8 December 9th, 2001, 05:23 PM

Yeah, this is a clear case for unbalance in the intel system. In mods the Crew Insurrection project ought to be more expensive, but more importantly there ought to be other defenses against this. First of all the chance for success ought to be affected by the general happiness of your empire. If all your planets are jubilant there's no good reason that crews would mutiny. We've been asking MM to let Boarding Parties act as 'loyalty monitors' for some time. If you install them in a ship they would "attack" when the crew mutinied and retake the ship.

If this and troops retaining loyalty on PPPed planets were implemented you would have some sort of defense against an opponent with many times your intel prodution.

[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Taqwus · #9 December 9th, 2001, 09:13 PM

Incidentally, I suspect that the intelligence system is deterministic with regards to whether or not an operation beats counterintelligence.

In one single-player game where I'd been slowwwwly taking my time, I ended up hurling 1M intelligence points (10 PPP; also 2 CI 3) per turn at the Earth Alliance, who since they had the most systems to expand in (perhaps no neighbors except me, few black holes blocking them) had a huge amount of intel as well. Individual PPP operations broke through *very* occasionally, most likely when the AI's CI completed and left a 'gap' -- never two turns in a row, for instance. My two CI projects, on the other hand, appeared to give me 100% protection (Intel opts were arranged in sequence, so it was only very rarely that there was a real danger of both completing in the same turn and leaving a gap).

jimbob · #10 December 10th, 2001, 09:56 PM

quote:
We've been asking MM to let Boarding Parties act as 'loyalty monitors' for some time. If you install them in a ship they would "attack" when the crew mutinied and retake the ship.

Yeah, I like that. But the retake of the ship should cause some level of damage, after all, shooting around inside a space ship is rarely good for it. You know, that whole "it's a vaccuum outside the ship" problem.

And how about a very small component "KGB Informer". Has a probablilty of blocking the attempted mutiny before it even starts (thus no damage to the ship). Perhaps a high end Political Sciences tech? A small (one person) expensive (bribes, etc.) and non-stackable component (one per ship?).

My two bits.