Lightless lantern and horror marks

[Amhazair]

I never used a lightless lantern in my SP games (too much micro ), but I'm currently in a position to produce them in a multiplayer game with Ulm, and I'm looking for some information on wether they're worth it.

First off, they cost 5 fire gems, which with master smiths and dwarven hammers becoms the ridiculously low amount of only 2 fire gems (and one mage-turn) for a 6-point reasearch bonus.

But then the problems start: according to the manual the lantern gives a 'slight chance' of a horror mark. Which doesn't say too much. What is a 'slight chance'? 1%/turn? 10%? 25%?

Then, once a mage is horror-marked, what are the chances of a horror showing up? (I never actually got to see a horror in any of the games I've played yet but then again I only just started to MP, and never used any spell or item dealing with horrors myself ) Can you expect one to show up in the next couple of turns, or is it quite possible not to be attacked for longer periods of time?

Then, if you are attacked, are there any ways to actually survive the attack? (It would most likely be Master Smiths facing the horrors, I have no brilliant survival ideas - not efficient ones at least) Would scripting an astral mage to cast returning save his life? (I have access to a couple of astral mages, but they're more expensive and less plentiful than my smiths - and if the horrors attack often this could quickly start to drain me out of astral pearls)

[Cor]

I recently played a 150+ turn game with Ulm EA with lots of Lightless lanterns. They seem to give horror marks at a low rate maybe 5%. The whole game I had maybe 2 Horror attacks.

I cant say for sure I did not get lucky, this is just my limited experience.

In my estimation it was worth it, just dont give them to "good" mages.

[NTJedi]

Amhazair said:
I never used a lightless lantern in my SP games (too much micro ), but I'm currently in a position to produce them in a multiplayer game with Ulm, and I'm looking for some information on wether they're worth it.

I would say no because horror marks makes you vunerable to other type of attacks besides just horrors if spells are casted. My personal opinion is they should have left a curse mark on the wielder instead of the dreaded horror mark.

Amhazair said:
First off, they cost 5 fire gems, which with master smiths and dwarven hammers becoms the ridiculously low amount of only 2 fire gems (and one mage-turn) for a 6-point reasearch bonus.

But then the problems start: according to the manual the lantern gives a 'slight chance' of a horror mark. Which doesn't say too much. What is a 'slight chance'? 1%/turn? 10%? 25%?

Then, once a mage is horror-marked, what are the chances of a horror showing up? (I never actually got to see a horror in any of the games I've played yet but then again I only just started to MP, and never used any spell or item dealing with horrors myself ) Can you expect one to show up in the next couple of turns, or is it quite possible not to be attacked for longer periods of time?

I believe only the developers know the answers to these questions and I believe they won't reveal the details because they want to leave mystery in the game. At least that was the original reason for not providing details on items from Dominions_2.
The only thing we do know is that horror marks can stack(up to 14 I believe) and the more horror marks which exist the more likely the individual will be attacked. Details only known by the developer(s).

Amhazair said:
Then, if you are attacked, are there any ways to actually survive the attack? (It would most likely be Master Smiths facing the horrors, I have no brilliant survival ideas - not efficient ones at least) Would scripting an astral mage to cast returning save his life? (I have access to a couple of astral mages, but they're more expensive and less plentiful than my smiths - and if the horrors attack often this could quickly start to drain me out of astral pearls)

The master smiths can cast petrify, be given blood slaves and setup with undead or lifeless guards to increase his surival.
Having an astral mage cast returning will save his life from horror attacks or other assassin attacks.

I must say these lanterns would be more worthwhile if it cursed the unit instead of horror marking them.

[PvK]

The rate or marking is quite low, but will happen to some lantern researchers eventually. But then the chance of getting attacked is also I think pretty low. So generally it is not a concern - as Cor wrote, just don't give them to particularly important mages. It would probably just call a lesser horror, which could be escaped with a few bodyguards or an escape spell or a good offensive spell, but except for spells it's probably not worth protecting them given the low odds of it happening.

It could potentially end up being a setback if you switch those researchers to battlefield mages at some point, and the enemy uses Call Horror or something... but again, the benefit probably outweighs the risk by a lot.

As MA Ulm, I think lanterns are very worthwhile to use.

PvK

[Meglobob]

In a recent MP, I used lots of lightless lanterns and they are definately worth it for research (helped win me the game), in those 50 turns I had 2 horror attacks, the mages died both times. They were a horror and lesser horror. About dozen of my mages out of about 50 with lightless lanterns ended up horror marked.

I used my cheapest/weakest mages to carry the lightless lanterns, I was playing LA Agartha, so not much of a loss if 1 dies to a horror attack.

Another option but mircromanagement intensive, so not for everybody, is check each mage every turn for horror marking, as soon as he becomes horror marked pass the lantern on to another mage (so not to lose it when he gets attacked by a horror), then use that mage up in combat, hopefully before he dies due to horror.

Another suggestion, but I have not personally used this tactic as yet, is if your mage is a death mage, you could cast twiceborn, so if a horror kills him you get a wightmage. The question is does the wightmage retain the horror marking?

[Micah]

Yup, just don't give them to anyone that's got the 10% bonus paths, and try to keep your dwarven hammers out of the hands of anyone that's marked. The chance of an attack is very low, plus basic master smiths are cheap and plentiful, and research-wise one lantern = 1 smith, so after 15 turns you've saved enough money on upkeep to buy a replacement if the old smith gets killed by a horror. You're out a couple of gems of course, but 2 fire gems is pretty small change, and the odds of getting killed off after 15 turns are vanishingly small.

[NTJedi]

Meglobob said:
Another suggestion, but I have not personally used this tactic as yet, is if your mage is a death mage, you could cast twiceborn, so if a horror kills him you get a wightmage. The question is does the wightmage retain the horror marking?

Yes, he would return with the horror marking and if had the curse marking he would return with this marking as well.

[Amhazair]

Okey, thanks for all the answers. It seems it's more or less as I expected, but it's nice to have confirmation. I guess I'll be making me some next turn.

[Hellboy]

NTJedi said:

I must say these lanterns would be more worthwhile if it cursed the unit instead of horror marking them.

I kind of like it the way it is. I think they're worthwhile to use, but as others have said, it's best to use them only on researchers that are expendable.