Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3

[Puke]

does the patch fix its 'more-of-the-same'ness? the gameing industry has a stick if you have a dead horse.

[Baron Munchausen]

There's a patch already, huh? How many patches were there for the original Civ? Five or more, I think? How many patches were there for Master of Orion I and II, and Master of Magic? At least three each -- I think it was more. For that matter, how many patches have there been for SE IV now? Seven? This is the 'software business' today. You don't FINISH anything. That's too expensive. You get it to the point where it's good enough not to be embarrassing at first use -- that is, you have 'plausible deniability' that you didn't know it wasn't really finished. Then you release it and hype it with lots of advertizing. Some games don't even have plausible deniability, of course. (cough)Outpost(cough) Then you gather the bug reports from your paying beta testers and start releasing patches. It works this way in business software, too. At least MS has had the grace to call its public beta phase a beta phase, and treat it that way, for new Versions of Windows since the 32-bit Versions started coming out.

I'd say wait another year and then get the 'latest' Civ III at that point. That's what I intend to do. Same for Master of Orion III, frankly. I wouldn't be dumb enough to believe the hype and buy it as soon as it's released. That's the public beta not the final game.

For that matter, SE IV Gold is finally gonna be what SE IV was supposed to be. It's the nature of the industry. Everyone is in a huge rush and thinks that anyone who takes the time to actually finish a major piece of software will end up publishing an obsolete 'white elephant'. And guess what, everyone rushing along with the same belief makes it true. The whole industry is a herd of sheep forcing itself over a cliff. So, to avoid frustration I have resigned myself to always using obsolete software. I'm currently running Windows 98 and will not upgrade to XP until there's a next generation released. By then it won't be too expensive to own hardware that can run it fast, either. Run the previous generation of software on the current generation of hardware and performance is not an issue. And the worst bugs will already be fixed.

[ 20 December 2001: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[DocShane]

Preach it, Brother Munchausen! I am a physician using electronic medical records and electronic medical billing. Don't use the newest fangled software and hardware. Wait on the bugs to be worked out.

Oh, I do use beta medical records software.... but not on real patients. I have been testing and playing with the "beta" for 8 months and soon enough we will be able to go "live" with the "full" Version. It would look pretty embarrassing for a patient to come in to my office and my staff not be able to pull up a chart because "the beta ate it"!

Look at NASA. One of my buddies told me that they use old 386 processors on the shuttle for their reliability. I don't know if that is true but makes sense.

If you wan't the latest, cutting edge stuff; be prepared to put up with some headaches. Remember the turtle and the hare. Steadfast wins the race.

[Puke]

not only do they use 386s, they only upgraded to them in the Last 5 years or so. i remember some obscure news article when they got the approval for it, but i dont remember exactly when it was.

hell, that was a few years ago. maybe they are on something better by now. i would not bank on it though, its more important for them to have twelve redundant systems for everything and have them run with low power requirements than it is for them to have fast processors. i mean, its not like they are computing rocket science

(gosh, remember when rocket science was mind-boggling? now its genetics this, molecules that. everything in modern science is so darn tiny! in the good old days people thought BIG!)

[Jourin]

I do agree that CIV III is a disappointment, but I still think it is a good game. Is it better than Civ II, yes. Does it have MAJOR problems, yes. Is it better out of the box than CTP I and II (both truely unfinished games), yes. Is it better then the modded CTP I, NO.

Problems:
1. Can not define historical starting positions for empires so can not play a historical Earth map or create scenarios. User mod fixes this bug.

2. Some of the features do not work. (although the patch did fix the precision bombing bug)

3. Game is VERY unstable and crashes constantly. Patch was supposed to address this problem but did not.

4. Patch:
Pros: Gives user more ability to fix problems with game.
Cons: Majority are just cosmetic fixes like spelling errors, does not fix MAJOR problems. Does fix precision bombing bug, but adds new bugs.
Assessment: If you want to try to mod the game to fix problems, install patch. If you want to play the game with no mods, do not install patch as additional bugs are not worth the precision bombing fix.

5. Pros: Firaxis has committed to fix the game with patches. As long as the company is willing to support the game with patches to fix the problems I am willing to buy the game. I refuse to buy games when the company refuses to support the game with patches. I did not buy CTP II and I will not buy IGIII as the companies refused to support CTP I and IGII but released flawed games, one or two minor patches and that was it. I will not be burned twice.

I was more disappointed with CTP I and II then with CIV3. CTP had great potential but was rushed to the market and totally unplayable out of the box. Activision also refused to support the game. Saving grace was ability to mod game. EXTENSIVE user mods over next two years turned CTP I into a very good game. CTP II was a step backwards and again Activision refused to support the game, so I say stick with CTP I modded. Luckily I did not buy CTP II.

Civ3 is playable out of the box (I think). Unfortunately once you get a good game going, it crashes. I have not been able to get past the middle ages yet. Tech suppost has been no help, as all crash problems are the OS's fault. They also state that only limited help will be available because of the holidays.

If you can wait don't buy CIV3 now, but wait for the patches.

[y.a.newbe]

I bought CTP II one year ago(!) and I couldn't believe how much CIV III lags behind in every aspect. User Interface, fun, movies - you name it!
I wonder if I shall invest(aka waste) another minute an CIV III. I rather play CTP II.

CTPII gives you future technologies, buildings, terains, governments and units packaged with a lot of fun to play them.
CIVIII gives you CIV1 with new graphics, trade system and diplomacy(not that it improves anything) with the same old (10 years?) interface! You want to know your 5 best cities for production? Scroll the list and find them yourself! You want to insert an item into the production queue of those 5 in one easy step? Forget it!
Have you ever played SE-IV? Imagine all(yes all) those listings of planets, ships, fleets ... but you can't sort them. Production queues without pictures just to make sure you paid attention. Hell dunno why I didn't uninstall CIVIII right away!

Safe money and buy SEIV GOLD!

[Growltigga]

I dunno - it is Christmas, the season of good will, joy to all men etc

Even CivIII designers need love and hugs at this time of year just like everyone else.

Be kind, the easiest way to show your preferences is simply not to buy CivIII but pick up SE Gold (or tupperware as I want to call it)

Me? I have an expensive wife to maintain so can't afford her, SE gold and Civ III so one has to go (Civ III)