Autocannon ammo loadout of AFVs

[Shan]

The V-150 Commando in its 20mm version carries 6+6 rounds HE/AP in the OOBs where I found it - for example with Trukey: Unit 52; Thailand: Unit 100; now, http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...150-specs.htm; Tanks of the world, ed. 8; and other sources all say it has 200 rounds ready + 200 reserve, 400 in total - this should then be 20/20 in the game I guess.

Besides, in the OOB of Saudi Arabia I found a version - Unit 123 - with the only armament being a 20mm cannon and only 12x HE ammo - that might be a mistake.

[kikka]

Another hint I found is
1. trying to find the burst ROF of a given weapon
2. calculating the # of projectiles fired during this second of fire
3. divide the real life ammo load by the result of 2 above.
4. Tadaaa
Does not give crazy results in terms of ammo load and respects the fact that a higher ROF gives higher lethality but less firing opportunities.
Just my 2 cts.
Cheers.

[Shan]

Another case of serious under-dotation - the South African Ratel 20 - Unit 27 - has a 10+10 round loadout in the game, while in reality it carries 1,200 20mm rounds (...and 6,000 7.62mm MG rounds...)- see http://www.geocities.com/sa_bushwar2/ratel or 'Tanks of the World'.

If playing with such vehicles versus an opponent who has (correctly loaded) BMPs, for example, you'll run out of ammo pretty soon, and reloading takes time, provided you have bought ammo carriers...

[Shan]

Another one - the German Luchs reconnaissance vehicle (Units 59, 68, 69) all carry 10+5 shots of 20mm ammo - this vehicle carries between 800 and 1000 shots, according to various online sources... so in my opinion another quite serious case...

I'm wondering about what other people think about this issue - please, post your comments! (btw - to avoid misunderstandings with the Admins: I know that if you don't reply this doesn't mean you're not reading this - but I'd like to hear what you think about this as well, and maybe you can tell us how the ammo points were originally calculated - the way like kikka says sounds reasonable, so it must be somehow like that)

[DRG]

Shan said:(btw - to avoid misunderstandings with the Admins: I know that if you don't reply this doesn't mean you're not reading this - but I'd like to hear what you think about this as well, and maybe you can tell us how the ammo points were originally calculated - the way like kikka says sounds reasonable, so it must be somehow like that)

Did Andy not already answer you on that in the second post on this thread.....???


10 shots per "burst" sounds about right but IDK for certain as there is no mention of that in the notes I still have related to OOB design, ( which does NOT mean there wasn't a formula used...just that I don't have a record of it ) I was not directly involved in that. Setting up the autocannon loadouts was something done YEARS ago then forgotten about because nobody complined about this or asked questions about it ( that I'm aware of )until you started this thread. Some vehicles loads would have been guesses made as it is even now not always possible to find sources with CONSISTENT ammo load stats ( " this vehicle carries between 800 and 1000 shots" is a good example of this ..what is it really 800...... or 1000? and what mix of ammo ?...... If I guess now-- guess what????... someone comes by in three or four or five years and asks where I got that info from........and then I get to start this all over again )

If someone wants to post some good HARD data on the actual ammo loads of autocannon armed vehicles I will be glad to look at it. Try to find something other than Wikipedia or pmulcahy for the source.

Don

[DRG]

Attached are two lists with all 485 ground units in the game that use weapon class 19--"autocannons".

One list is ordered by nation and one by the unit names ( so all units named "BTR-80" are in one block together regardless of nation )

Each list shows the HE, AP, Sabot and HEAT loads ( the last two only when the weapon is in weapon slot one but that would be mostly the case with thes unit classes )

The unit name, nation , UnitSlot, Year available and Weapon Name are all listed

Different nations may have different ammo loads for the same unit. That's an OOB designer decision based on info he may have picked up someplace ( the AMX-10's have a lot of different set ups for it's "32" shots )


Let me know what you come up with for these...

Don

[Shan]

DRG said:
If someone wants to post some good HARD data on the actual ammo loads of autocannon armed vehicles I will be glad to look at it. Try to find something other than Wikipedia or pmulcahy for the source.

Don

That's exactly what I'd like to encourage people to do - come up with good sources so you'll have to look at it, and that is also where I had to say: Sorry for my bad sources - (maybe a longer internet research could turn out better results but it will all be open-source stuff) but even though I know the facts are like I'm saying, I agree that you (the team) will need some better backup sources to take this serious and modify the OOBs - provided you have the time and willingness to do so and can agree on what formula to apply... a major task, no doubt.
In my opinion, finding good sources is just a smaller matter that can eventually be solved by the right people who have this information, and I'm sure there must be some players in this forum who do, it 'just' needs to be collected and implemented - the main point is that I still believe that I'm right with my assumption that these inconsistencies exist and something should be done. I also chose to name only a few vehicles as a starting point and in my opinion it's quite obvious that something isn't correct with them.

Anyway - thanks for looking at this and providing the spreadsheets, Don - I hope this will result in something constructive.

Shan

[Shan]

Another one, IDK if this one has been mentioned before - but there must obviously be a mistake, apart from the under-dotation, as theunit has no AP ammo -

Yugoslavia: Unit 540 - M-80AK - new IFV version with 30mm cannon - currently only has 9x HE ammo, so AP or Sabot whatsoever