Casual PBEM (Full & playing)

RicoRico · #1 February 26th, 2007, 05:36 PM

turn 16 hosted (or is it turn 15, and I sent you turn 16... well...)

7/16 turns in

FrankTrollman · #2 February 26th, 2007, 06:21 PM

Deleted.

RicoRico · #3 February 27th, 2007, 04:01 AM

14/16 turns in. Waiting for Abysia and Pythium

RicoRico · #4 February 27th, 2007, 04:04 PM

nice, fast turn!
turn hosted

FrankTrollman · #5 February 27th, 2007, 04:53 PM

Deleted.

johnarryn · #6 February 27th, 2007, 05:20 PM

Frank,

You're not exactly being fair, nor following Sheap's excellent rules of diplomacy (i.e. carrying grudges from game to game, or anyhow trying to impugn my reputation in other games). My diplomacy was conducted in-character, as were my actions in our game. In this game, I had actually pledged to help Vanheim some time ago... and I did employ some misleading remarks to achieve this end and attack Ermor, but that is the way of war. So, I certainly don't mind you accusing Marignon of treachery... however, to say that I, personally, am not trustworthy is both unfair and untrue. This also carries over to other games I happen to be playing in. Just because I chose to mislead someone in one game does not mean I will do so another... I have been a loyal and true ally in many a game.

Actually, now that I look at my message sent to you, i said, quote: "we have no interest in conflict with you at this time... we wish to claim the independant provinces near your great city." Well, I did in fact take those provinces... and my (in-game) protestation of having no interest in conflict with you was rather vague. At no point did I "promise" not to take your capital.

I just was attacked (without warning) by Darrel playing Pythium. While in-game i'm going to whine about not giving me warning etc, etc. I don't translate that into a judgment about Darrel as a player being untrustworthy. I would appreciate the same consideration from you.

thanks for taking the time to read this rather long post - I think the distinction between player and in-game persona is important; I also think deception is a natural part of war and diplomacy.

Ewierl · #7 February 27th, 2007, 05:28 PM

Deception is an important part, but so is a reputation for truth.

There's a difference between carrying grudges and knowing someone's reputation.

In a system like Dominions where diplomacy is only enforced by trust, earning and keeping trust is necessary. If I thought my neighbors weren't going to keep their word, I wouldn't bother much with treaties. If someone is a loyal and true ally in "many" games, that's very different from being one in "every" game.

Of course, there is a difference between lying and misleading. That's why I always ask people to make explicit statements and pacts... if they say "I have no interest in X", that doesn't actually mean they aren't going to do X. But if they say "I'm not going to attack any provinces beyond this line," then you know exactly what they have and haven't promised to do.

Did Marignon explicitly violate their word, break any promises or pacts? What do each of you say? The rest of the world needs to know...