Is it just me or is Hellheim troops way to strong?

[FrankTrollman]

Deleted.

[Gandalf Parker]

I think that no matter what changes are made, there will be "not allowed in my groups games". But I consider it more based on "my groups games". If a group primarily plays one type of game (map size, game settings, number of players, victory conditions) then there will always be something that hits hard in that type of game. Therefore it gets left put bt people who play that type of game over and over and over.

But it shouldnt be balanced for that game. If it was then it would become imbalanced for other groups playing other games.

[Beorne]

FrankTrollman said:
The problem is that the Van aren't banned from your games because of unbalance. They are banned from your play group's games because of the perception of unbalance. Your particular gaming group is... very idiosyncratic. They do a lot of things that I don't agree with or understand.

So really, it doesn't matter whether the Vanir are balanced or not, they'll never be allowed in your games because the people in your group made a decision that they are overpowered and now no longer even consent to play against them.

Anti-Vanir tactics could be invented tomorrow that made the faction rank near the bottom and your group would still have them on the banned list. That's the joy of predjudice: it doesn't matter whether there's any reality to the opinion or not - the fact that further inquisition is refused on the subject means that the opinions can literally never change.

---

So yeah, Vanheim is good, but it's banned in your play group and it will never stop being banned in your play-group. And that doesn't have anything to do with anything that Johan did or will do in the future. Indeed, attempting to please your group on this subject is obviously a waste of Johan's time because the only way Vanheim could come off the banned list for your games is if it was shown to not be overpowered. And that requires playing against it, which you won't do!

-Frank

I think is not useful arguing about thre discrepancies between perception and inner truth, you know it's ALL about perception in every aspect of life. If you try hard you can find inner truth in religion, or perhaps in love. We're talking about DomIII.
We made up our decision (and I, who am the host, have a big influence in the process) after a set of games vs van. Not because prejudice (van/hel is among our favored nation) but because unbalance. I can assure you that a little cost increase and/or defence reduction would please me and re-open van/hel nations.
I don't think that any nation should need a so hardly customized "anti" tactics, it ruines my games. I prefer to developing a tematic nation rather an anti -heim nation. I like so. But there is a previous big thread full off better explained reasons by better english language people explaining Van overpower.
Btw, in the previous thread it seemed that all people (excluding two, at most) was in agree that Van was overpowered, and every once in a while this subject shows up.
So, what's your problem? You win with Van with you friends? I don't understand ....