T-54/55 versions

[brummbaer]

Marcello: I don't know about the bow MG exchanged for more rounds.
I hope this can be useful to the staff for updating the oobs. It's up to them decide which versions to include in the game and which not.

I have a similar list for T-72, while I still have to find the time to study the T-64 and T-80. Let me know if you find it useful. If not I don't want to clutter the forum with further threads.

[DRG]

OK .......the T-54M. Who used it ? Russia ? Or were they only exported? Your date is 1977 but I've seen others that say .....

# T-54M (mid-1960s) – Upgrade program to bring T-54s up to T-55 standard.
# T-54M (1977) – Additional upgrades, including OPVT snorkel and KTD-1 laser rangefinder.

which indicates this was done in stages and the first stage made the T54m essentially the same tank as a T55M and "Mid sixties" could mean some were started in 1963 and they were all upgraded by 1968 during overhauls......maybe.

Other sources ( http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ussia/t-54.htm ) say "T-54M: T-54 upgraded to the T-55M standard. See T-55M." so aside from one being called "T-54" and one being called "T-55" they are essentially the same tank and although I appreciate that this would seem to be "more historical" it's also redundant. If it genuinely fills an important spot in a nations OOB I would be happy to add it. If all we are doing is renaming a T55m to T54M there seems little point

This from Wikipedia. I don't really like quoting Wiki but here goes...."The T-54 and T-55 tanks are very similar and difficult to distinguish visually. Many T-54s were updated to T-55 standards. Soviet tanks were factory-overhauled every 7,000 km, and often given minor technology updates."

So every overhaul some new little gadget may have replaced an old one or a new thingy is tacked on which means any OOB is just an approximation of reality as it is impossible to say with 100% certainty that at any given date the OOB of any nation exactly mirrors reality.

Don

[brummbaer]

From Osprey book:
"The T-54M program begun in the mid-60s to upgrade the T-54 with new features and components from the T-55 program. To further confuse matters a second T-54M program was developed in 1977 by the Omsk KTMB with further upgrades, including the addition of the OPVT system and the KTD-1 LRF... The T-54AM upgrade in the mid 60s brought the T-54A closer to the T-55A standards, including the increase in stored ammonition and engine."

So I'd say you're right with the two stage modernization;
though it doesn't state that clearly, my guess is that T-54M/AM were kept by the Red Army at least in mobilization units and storage, and they kept selling them for years.

My point is trying to make some clearness about the models that were developed, thence your choice if include them or not: I agree that synthesis of redundant models is better.

[PlasmaKrab]

As well, what would be the actual difference between tanks of the T-55M and T-55AM series? If we assume both modernizations were carried out at the same time, on modernized T-55As and plain T-55s, wouldn't the latter also get the 55A-level upgrades like the PKT and DShK?
In the same way as what Don said above, both M and AM series could probably be collapsed together.

[brummbaer]

PlasmaKrab said:
As well, what would be the actual difference between tanks of the T-55M and T-55AM series? If we assume both modernizations were carried out at the same time, on modernized T-55As and plain T-55s, wouldn't the latter also get the 55A-level upgrades like the PKT and DShK?
In the same way as what Don said above, both M and AM series could probably be collapsed together.

The main difference is the same between T-55 and T-55A, i.e. the anti-radiation liner, and the lacking in A of the bow MG. Don't know about changing MG in modernized plain T-55s, but irrilevant I'd say. So I agree, not a major difference for SP purpose, as long as they don't cover nuclear warfare .
It's even difficult to tell the A apart from the plain T-55, as in some pictures tanks named T-55 and T-55M apparently lack the bow MG hole!
What I know about modernization years is above, anyway being the plain T-55 older it's reasonable to assume they underwent it earlier. Maybe i misunderstand you, but just for clarity T-55A weren't modernized tanks but new-built ones.

[PlasmaKrab]

OK, thanks for the update, I thought at least part of the T-55As were modernized from stock T-55s.
Anyway, it boils down to the only difference between M and AM being, in game terms, the BMG.
I don't know if the old CMG has been retained while rebuilding the old T-55s to M standard, but when you're already taking out the stabilizer, gunner sight and probably gunbarrel, changing the CMG as well is no big feat.

[brummbaer]

Having made some thought of it:
T-54M/AM (not the polish AM) can be assimilated to plain T-55, T-55 can be assimilated to T-55A and M to AM.
This simplify things a bit, but leaves a lot of variants still that the game now doesn't cover or mixes in odd way. Any interest by the designers in going further?