Black heart

Nick_K · #1 March 22nd, 2007, 10:32 PM

Do Pans still drop Maenaeds every turn? If so I imagine they're not great in MP because your opponent will know where they are and can take action against them. Of course, in SP it's very rare to lose an assassin in a 1-on-1 battle. Most of my losses are when patrolling enemies detect them and they try to fight 100s of enemies.
In Doms2 I used to use succubi with boots of quickness & rods of the phoenix. 2 casts of incinerate per turn will kill almost anything that isn't fire immune very quickly. They're very expensive though so if they get caught by patrollers you lose a big investment.

The annoying thing with the fiend is that you have to cast 'gift of reason' - you need a turn from a N4 mage and an extra 20 nature gems for it. Of course, the need to research blood 8 means that heliophagi are pretty hard to get.
Of course, if you can get them the heliophagi are just plain better than the fiends - I don't think the fiends have any advantages except price, but as you say, they're hard to research.
What's the stealth value on a fiend of darkness? If it's stealth+0 then I wouldn't recommend investing lots of gems on equipment & GoR as they'll get caught fairly soon even by province defence. Most assassin units have high stealth - I think succubi are +30 or something.
Actually, what stealth do pans have? They're quite expensive especially if equipped - the question with assassins for me is "Will he kill enough enemies to more than justify his cost?". If the enemies only cost gold, but he needs lots of gems then assassination becomes about fun rather than an efficient tactic.

(edit) use a spectre rather than ghosts. You save a lot of gems from not needing to GoR and the spectre has magic as well

Xietor · #2 March 22nd, 2007, 10:41 PM

Good points Nik, but I play MA pangaea, so nature games, gift of reason are all of what i do anyway. reseaching blood 2 for a flying assassin is not to bad, and cheap cost. I usually have so many nature gems i cant use them all anyway.

So i make items with them. Assassins are expensive for nations that have them without using black heart. And I have never lost a pan to one. pan just owns regular assassins, with 27 hp, invulnerability and regen.

I am not sure the province defense can beat a ghost that regenerates, i will test. etheral, life drain, high morale and high mr. Boots quickness. shrug.

I really have not done much with assassins until this game.
Just toying with them. The pan does not seem to attract the maeoeds stealthed in enemy territory.

Xietor · #3 March 22nd, 2007, 11:00 PM

I summoned a succubus, the protection zero, and no chest slot worries me. I doubt i would ever go blood 5 for her any way.

Xietor · #4 March 22nd, 2007, 11:53 PM

Fairy queen is stealth 25, but only 15 hps.

Ballbarian · #5 March 23rd, 2007, 01:29 AM

Quote:

The pan does not seem to attract the maeoeds stealthed in enemy territory.

They definitely do. As Gandalf has described before, they essentially become stealth bombers dropping naked ladies as they slip by. Catch a province with no defenders, and poof, it is yours.

Graeme Dice · #6 March 23rd, 2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Ballbarian said:
They definitely do. As Gandalf has described before, they essentially become stealth bombers dropping naked ladies as they slip by. Catch a province with no defenders, and poof, it is yours.

This only works on provinces that have a province defense of 0. If your opponent has bought a single point of province defense, then the only thing that occurs is 5 or 6 points of unrest.

You can accomplish exactly the same effect on undefended provinces using 20 gold scouts.

Ballbarian · #7 March 23rd, 2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

They definitely do. As Gandalf has described before, they essentially become stealth bombers dropping naked ladies as they slip by. Catch a province with no defenders, and poof, it is yours.

This only works on provinces that have a province defense of 0. If your opponent has bought a single point of province defense, then the only thing that occurs is 5 or 6 points of unrest.

Quote:

You can accomplish exactly the same effect on undefended provinces using 20 gold scouts.

It is not the same. The scout has to spend a turn attacking & not moving, whereas the pan can just keep moving and does not risk encountering enemy forces that happen to move into the "unguarded" province on the same turn as the attack.

Try it, you'll like it.

Gandalf Parker · #8 March 25th, 2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Graeme Dice said:

Quote:

Ballbarian said:
They definitely do. As Gandalf has described before, they essentially become stealth bombers dropping naked ladies as they slip by. Catch a province with no defenders, and poof, it is yours.

This only works on provinces that have a province defense of 0. If your opponent has bought a single point of province defense, then the only thing that occurs is 5 or 6 points of unrest.

You can accomplish exactly the same effect on undefended provinces using 20 gold scouts.

Not quite exactly the same. The Pans at least province a check every turn to see if you have won the province. If there are no commanders then you can take it without having to test it with a commander. And if you slink a few provinces away before trying the trick again then you arent too easy to catch. Its not a foolproof tactic but its definetly a handy one.

SlipperyJim · #9 March 23rd, 2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Xietor said:
I summoned a succubus, the protection zero, and no chest slot worries me. I doubt i would ever go blood 5 for her any way.

Give her a Wraith Crown. Ethereal + a horde of zombies = great protection.

I had a Succubus in one game who was really sticking it to Caelum. She only died when she tried to seduce the Dragon pretender by accident.

Still, I got a lot of fun (& value) out of her before that ugly incident....

Wish · #10 March 23rd, 2007, 11:27 AM

shoot you could just give her two bottles of living water and script her to hold. it'll take out most of the commanders she goes up against.